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Dea, I looked at this one yesterday. Unfortunately, I had to rule her out.

She appears to have married Arthur Stephens in 1924. And is on the 1939 under the name of Ellen Eliza living in Surrey. Exactly the same birth date 30/12/1899


I've also ruled out the Ellen Ethel born 1900 in Paddington

Nicola,

There were just as many couples living together and having children then as there are now- perhaps more as it was almost impossible to get a divorce unless you were extremely rich so it is very possible that a marriage did not take place between them.

I have been looking at this family for Ellen but I haven't managed to prove it yet:

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
118 Lucey Road Bermondsey, Bermondsey, London, England

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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Occupation Age Birth year Birth place
William Hoare Head Married Male Currier 39 1872 Bermondsey
Transcription
Ellen Hoare Wife Married Female - 35 1876 Rotherithe
Transcription
Ada Hoare Daughter - Female School 12 1899 Bermondsey
Transcription
Ellen Hoare Daughter - Female School 11 1900 Bermondsey
Transcription
Lily Hoare Daughter - Female School 7 1904 Bermondsey
Transcription
Winifred Hoare Daughter - Female - 1 1910 Bermondsey.

There are several possibilities for an Ellen Hoare born at that time but looking at the births of some of the other siblings above I think that this one fits the bill ?

Births Dec 1898 (>99%)
Hoare Ada May St. Olave 1d 250


Births Dec 1903 (>99%)
HOARE Lily Agnes St. Olave 1d 221

?????
Births Mar 1900 (>99%) ***********************
Hoare Eliza Ellen St. Olave 1d 239


This is the marriage of her parents:

William Hoare - Currier
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1873
Age: 25
Spouse: Ellen Charlotte Gavin
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 10 Apr 1898
Parish: St James, Bermondsey
Borough: Southwark
Father Name: James Hoare
Spouse Father: Alexander Gavin
Register Type: Parish Register


This is Ellen's death - note the birth date is 1 year out which is not unusual as the informant may not have been sure of her age:

Ellen Barrett
in the England & Wales, Death Index, 1916-2007

Name: Ellen Barrett
Birth Date: 4 Oct 1900
Date of Registration: Jun 1981
Age at Death: 80
Registration district: London City
Inferred County: London
Volume: 14
Page: 0781

I am still working on this but will post more later.

Dea x

Thanks Mavis
I did read it but was unable to find a relevant birth for either Ellen Hoare or William Barrett in 1898 and 1899 and find it hard to understand how they could have had at least 6 children with no marriage?
I am sorry if I appear to have not paid attention to your posts, but I really value all the replies and help given.
Nicky

I have already mentioned who they are on 21st Feb - did you not read it?


Ellen Hoare/ Barrett born 4th Oct 1899
William Barrett born 6th Nov 1898 street trader flowers

no Marriage


Mavis

Ellen/Ellie/Nellie could have been known as !!

Cannock as a birth place for George Hoare/Hughes does not seem right. Can someone help in finding the parents of the Barrett children(mothers maiden name Hoare) first child born Ellen W Barrett in June 1925 Holborn, followed by Thomas G, 1926. Winifred M, 1931. Eileen M, 1935. Maureen J, 1938. June M, 1939 (in Poole). Victor J, 1941. James M, 1943. Also Gladys M, 1920 St Pancras could be a possible child.. who was the mother of these children?? Surname Hoare and who was the father surname Barrett? Family members insist their mother was Nelly Hoare and related to George but can't be he's sister, far to old to have a child in 1943.
Will have to get the birth cert for Eileen M Barrett born 1935(as she is the only confirmed relative) and hope it takes me a step closer to George. Any other ideas??

I'm still thinking of that marriage 1911

1939 index
Louise Hughes is a widow 1939 born 22 sep 1875
Louise Emily Hughes [daughter] born 18 aug 1914 [Emily L Hughes]

not found a death for husband in Cannock

1939 index Staffordshire
George Hughes born 25 sep 1884
Louisa A Hughes born 8 march 1870 ??
2 non look at

been looking at George Hughes of Cannock Army record
joined Gren Guards 28th Aug1903 gave his age as 20 y 3 mth he had a
Tattoo on left wrist of "Lydia or Lydie" was 6 foot 1-1/4 inches tall
Discharged 15th July 1913 - Disconduct or Misconduct ?? forfeited Medals !!
names all the family starting with father William Hughes 4 brothers-4 sisters

George Hughes birth Sep Q 1883 Cannock 6b 481 parents William and Caroline she died sep 1885 42y

did he leave Louise and come back to London - change surname to Hoare ??
every thing seems to fit but birthday

Mavis :-0 :-0

This family 'does your brain in' doesn't it Mavis ?? ;-)

I have the grandchildren again today as it is still half term here but will pop in and out as I can........

Dea Xxx

OOOOps looks as if I got carried away when I found that marriage of George Hughes 1911 -- yes his father was William and a bricklayer .

George Hughes Soldier in 1911 is the Cook of St James barracks born Cannock as Maryb states

a big SORRY so back now looking for George Hughes or Hore/Hoar/Hoare

Mavis :-( :-( :-(

George Hughes 1883 Cannock parents William Hughes 1839 Edgmund Shropshire a BRICKLAYER and Caroline.

1911 Barracks, St Margaret St John district Hanover Sq London
George Hughes Cook age 24 born Cannock
1st grenadier guards.

Maryb.

They are on FMP Mary.

Dea x

This looks like the marriage to louise Carter 1911.

Louise Carter of 22,little Edward Street born 1875/6
had Minnie Rose Hughes 1912 St Pancras died Cannock Staffordshire 1955 probate to Emily Louise Matthews wife of Albert Thomas Matthews.

Louise Hughes 1875-1951 Cannock Staffs
Emily louise Hughes nee Carter born 1914 Cannock Staffs.

There are 2 people on here with Minnie Rose Hughes 1912 and louise Carter.

Are his army records on Ancestry as I can't seem to find them.

Maryb.

That family are an Ellen and William Barrett -- yet again no marriage

William born 6 . 11 .1898 hes a street trader flowers
Ellen born 4 . 10. 1899

Ellen / Ellie / Nellie ?????

they live in New North Street

Mavis

Please ignore that last post, of course there is not actual signatures on the marriage cert.
Have any of you experienced researchers come across a brick wall like this before? I just can't see away of getting any further with George.
Going to look again at the children of (Nelly) Hoare and Barrett there are 7 of them born in Holborn from 1925, will have to find the marriage.

I have just looked at the copy of the marriage cert for George and Alice and there is no signature for either of them?? the copy only gives the names of the married couple at the bottom in the same handwriting as the rest of the cert and then cuts off, I can see there is something written on the next line under this, is that where their signatures should be?

I can send a copy of the marriage cert if it help with signatures? I have just looked at all your replies and the army info does explain him not marrying till 1917 at aged 33.
Thanks for the look up of Nelly Hughes Hore, seems it is just a coincidence after all.
With regards to Alice's children from the reading marriage, I have the death record of Thomas Reading he died on the 3rd October 1964 aged 55.
George's grand daughter says her father Albert Hoare(born 1921) lived in Doughty Mews with parents George and Alice, along with the children from Alice's first marriage, 13 in all.

I have been doing that Mary but I can't really can't be sure that it is the same one.

I have compared it with the army records signature too but still not sure. :-(

Dea x

The George William born 1881 in Kilburn,he had a sister Emily Rose who married 7/6/1908 he was a witness.

I wonder if you could compere his signature with 1911 census and other marriages etc.

Maryb.

I think he was stationed at 'home' in the' Reserves' from 1907 - June 4th 1911 when he was discharged ??

No mention of a marriage on the Army record though.

Dea x

think he must have still been in the Army - if we believe the 1911 marriage -
might have gone through 1914-1918

keep plodding away

Mavis

Thanks Mavis - that seems to have blown 'that one' out of the water then :-( :-(

Dea x