Find Ancestors

one of the later passenger records has him being a judge

ArgyllGran posted the explanation of his position

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puisne_judge

(it's pronounced "puny" judge :-) )

basically he would have been an ordinary judge - on a court of the colony he was in I would presume, doubtful he would have been taking up a position as a judge in England

that was the 1953 trip back to England which seems to have been their permanent return

civil servants in the colonies received home leave from time to time, which is why you see the multiple voyages

Ah ok il look i dont understand it all i know that they changed her name to Clodagh i know they was an irish couple and i know they was wealthy but nothing more was ever passed on and no contact any further was ever given and my family have searched for her for years. This is the only possibility that has come of light. If she was born in africa would of death certificate display she was an African cit or anything?

There are some records for Civil service examinations ( if he took them ) mentioned here
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/civil-or-crown-servants/

but there may be no records to say what sort of work Frederick did, basically he would have worked for the British government in some capacity, possibly in an embassy of sorts or local government offices maybe, in Africa. As such his family would be able to accompany him back and forth to postings.

Joonie so let me get my head around this theres a missing boat trip isnt there? Is there any way i can find her getting to england from ireland or somewhere else between the husband leaving after marriage and when we find Clodagh on the boat trip it 1931. In africa do they not have birth records as us? surely there has to be something?

Ok i dont understand what that means for his job so Clodagh would travel with him and so would Eileen ?as some trips Clodagh was in her twenties

The boat trips, Frederick was a civil servant 'on Her Majesty's service' in what were then African colonies


oops I missed that Rose posted the house while I was digging around in bmds :-)

the probate will give you the name of the person who handled the estate, who was responsible for transferring the money or property to her heirs

probate should mean there was a will (it would be administration if there was no will, I believe)

I have not delved into probate much so I don't know whether the actual will would be attached

her death wasn't so long ago, so the informant or executor would very likely still be findable

you do have the right approach - do what you can to eliminate this possibility, if possible, and then move on :-)


a bit more info about Eileen

1911 census in Dublin, the family were Church of Ireland

Milne John 44 Male Head of Family, traveller in woolens
Milne May 38 Female Wife
Milne Eileen 10 Female Daughter
Milne Norah 4 months Female Daughter

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FB5F-52G

Name Norah Mary Milne
Event Type Birth
Event Date Oct - Dec 1910
Event Place Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Oct - Dec 1910
Registration District Dublin South
Volume Number 2
Page Number 549

possible marriage for Norah but young

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FYVF-S4C

Name Norah May Milne
Event Type Marriage
Event Date Jan - Mar 1937
Event Place Dublin South, Ireland
Registration Quarter and Year Jan - Mar 1937
Registration District Dublin South
Volume Number 2
Page Number 321

there were nearly 4500 marriages in Dublin South in 1937, so say a good 500 grooms in the Jan-Mar quarter, so I'm not going to go through them looking for the matching groom in volume 2 on page 321 :-)


this seems to be a current sale listing for Clodagh's house (although more recently renovated and extended) and I think it's a case of if you have to ask, you can't afford it :-)

http://media1.fineandcountry.com/v3/clients/224/properties/50017677/MED_50017677_50028787.pdf

so I would imagine she had a fairly substantial estate

Ive just contacted what would be Clodaghs full sibling (Coonah) see if shes happy for me to proceed with death cert and the probate

Does anyone know why all these boat trips did they all work at sea or ?

Does anyone know why all these boat trips did they all work at sea or ?

Wow what a wonderful house so what is your advise buy the info and death cert? have we any further luck on the missing boat out to africa or anything else?

Might be of interest to note that the address for Clodagh in the electoral roll, was sold in 2014, and prior to that in 2003.
http://www.zoopla.co.uk/property-history/11-peel-hall-lane/ashton/chester/ch3-8de/27486315

If you click on 'help' on that site it says amongst other things the following

"You can only see the grant in the estate and the will if the deceased left one. The details on the grant will highlight a gross and net estate figure (more information in Useful Terms), but will not show a breakdown of the estate. The will if there is one will show who the executors are and may well show details of bequests to specific individuals or parties or it may not. This will depend on how the deceased drafted their will and the expressions they wanted to make.

The will and grant will not provide you with breakdowns of the assets in an estate or how the estate was distributed."

So it may or may not give a relative's name or where the bequests went to, but it should give the Executor's details.

Not one single GR member has any of these Johnstons on their trees either

Ok but not everyone has such things put on gov so if i pay the fee what sort of information will be showed. I feel so thick right about now but want to ensure its all the right thing to do and really want to either eliminate this or go forward with it all its uncanny the births are close its odd she didnt marry i think or have children and its odd that theres no birth for her both the parents were irish so are the family i seek and the name is the absolute same not that it means anything but could do

G83 'Probate' is granted in order that an executor of a will or someone appointed to handle the deceased's financial affairs can do so. As there is mention of a will it may suggest there was a reasonable estate, if not property or money then bequests to beneficiaries...perhaps a relative?

I am continually spelling her name wrong i thought it was Clodaugh but it appears Clodagh ive seen the will and probate entry and fee is 10.00 can someone tell me what that is for will i recieve in the post bits or what? sorry ive never had to do this before and your possibly right it may uncover something

Ahhhhh thank you Joonie thank god you saw my posts impatient me but i just need closure to all this its so hard trying to find whats what but i think i understand now more so.

Ok the name Clodaugh is because a short time after the Irish family took Coonah they wrote to My Grandma and Grandad saying she was well and they had renamed her Clodaugh no surname was on the letter and no forwarding address and that is the only evidence we have for her since her birth

I dont understand what a probate is?

:-S

thanks for your PM Alexandra, and yup, I remember

I don't think anyone specifically answered your question? there are no passenger records between Ireland and England

you wondered about where the death record I posted is - Ancestry, it isn't on Freebmd because it only goes up to 1980

This possibility really is a very long shot, the record of incoming and outgoing trips seems to make it likely she was born in Africa, but the missing puzzle piece is, how did Eileen get to Africa in order to make this return voyage:

Name: Clodagh G E Johnston (mistranscribed, J E)
(with Frederick Wm and Eileen)
Port of Departure: Beira, Mozambique
Arrival Date: 15 Feb 1931
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ports of Voyage: Plymouth
Ship Name: Modasa

her travel to Africa would show whether or not the daughter was with her
and if so, adoption would seem likely since no birth record in England/Ireland exists
but if Eileen travelled out without a child, the child would have been born in Africa

it's very annoying not to be able to find that record!
We have Frederick travelling out alone after the marriage

Name: Frederick Johnson
Gender: Male
Age: 29
Birth Date: abt 1899
Departure Date: 21 Dec 1928
Port of Departure: London, England
Destination Port: Mombasa, Kenya
Ship Name: Malda

and sometime between late 1928 and Feb 1931, Eileen joining him

if anybody can find that record !

as far as the daughter marrying and having children, she died under her childhood name so no marriage apparently

I agree that getting the death certificate could possibly give you a name of someone who knew her, and her probate could provide even better info, if she left her estate to family or friends


one other thing I think isn't clear, I had picked up the name Clodagh from something you said somewhere, but I don't think we know where you had got it from

There is a probate record and will on https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk for the Clodagh J Johnston who died 2004

JOHNSTON CLODAGH JANEY ELEANOR 16 September 2004 1626806 26 June 2004 Grant and will Winchester