Find Ancestors

Cynthia - thank you for your welcome. :-D

Chris:- Re: the reference to
"Baptism: 30 Jan 1903 Cathedral Church of St John the Evangelist, Salford, Lancashire, England
Rose Morgan - filia Thomas Morgan & Mary Ellen (formerly Mackroy)
Born: 14 Dec 1902
Abode: 15 Russell St
Godparents: Alice Gill
Baptised by: Stephen Wigmore
Register: Baptisms 1901 - 1908, Page 105, Entry 2
Source: Original Register at LRO Preston"

I've never seen that before. That's very interesting and actually fits well with the evidence that Dea had shown in my first post. Thank you.

I didn't even know that you could access Baptism records. I'm assuming that Patrick and Thomas would be Catholic - if Patrick has come from Ireland. Especially as Thomas married Mary Connell (Irish name) in the Catholic church. Would Thomas's records be recorded on a baptism list (or not) because he is Catholic?

:-)

Chris Ho - The family details below are mine and correct. The one I've starred *** is Thomas son of Patrick. (or so it suggests from the marriage cert). And Patrick comes from Ireland. But Patrick and Thomas are missing from the census mentioned in the first post - which is what I'm trying to track so that I can confirm details linking patrick to Thomas.
1911 (Find My Past)
***Thomas Morgan Head Married Male 44 1867 Pendleton Lanc Labourer
Mary Ellen Morgan Wife Married Female 44 1867 Hulme Lanc
Thomas Morgan Son Single Male 19 1892 Pendleton Lanc Street Hawker
May Morgan Daughter - Female 14 1897 Pendleton Lanc School
Florie Morgan Daughter - Female 13 1898 Pendleton Lanc School
Rosie Morgan Daughter - Female 7 1904 Pendleton Lanc School
Martin Morgan Son - Male 4 1907 Pendleton Lanc
Address 15 Rossall St Pendleton Salford (Russell St)
Parish Pendleton
County Lancashire
Census reference RG14 PN24038 RG78 PN1383 RD465 SD3 ED25 SN211

(Married 10yrs, 4 children born, 2 living, 2 died)

Dea - all details from marriage certificate are:
22 Jan 1887 date of marriage at Church of St John the Evan in Salford.
Thomas Morgan 20 years Mary Connell 18 years He a bachelor and she a spinster He is a wine finisher she isn't marked as having a profession. He lives at 1 Ridsdale Street, Pendleton and she at 1 Bevel Street Salford. His father Patrick Morgan, her's Bernard Connel (Deceased) Patrick is a Hawker Bernard was a Farrier. Witness I(?) Cranshaw (or Granshaw) and Charlotte Cranshaw (Granshaw)

My faith in humanity is restored. Thank you! :-D

(ah!, thanks Dea)

Chris :)

Thank you Cynthia - you are quite correct <3

Hi Chris - Yes, that is the correct family from 1911 it was NOT ruled out but this query is following Thomas Snr on there and trying to work backwards to find his parents and correct birth.

Some of those children were Mary Ellen's by her first marriage and she was 'living with' Thomas and they had more - It's all on the other thread but quite seperate to what we are now trying to find which is the 'origin' of Thomas Snr.

It certainly is a tricky one.......................... ;-)

Dea x

It's unfortunate that some members still think that, because a member joined many years ago, they know how to use these boards.


As the person who takes the time to alert people to their replies, I know this to be far from the truth and am getting tired of new folk being criticised for any errors they may inadvertently make.

I say this because it happened to me many moons ago, but I worked my way through it.


Clive, I would like to extend a welcome to you and encourage you to use the boards further - there are some very friendly and helpful people on here.....honestly! :-D

(apologies folks, is this family below 1911 (from other 'Thread') now ruled out, have got lost!, don't shout at me!, lol)

Chris :)

1911 (Find My Past)
Thomas Morgan Head Married Male 44 1867 Pendleton Lanc Labourer
Mary Ellen Morgan Wife Married Female 44 1867 Hulme Lanc
Thomas Morgan Son Single Male 19 1892 Pendleton Lanc Street Hawker
May Morgan Daughter - Female 14 1897 Pendleton Lanc School
Florie Morgan Daughter - Female 13 1898 Pendleton Lanc School
Rosie Morgan Daughter - Female 7 1904 Pendleton Lanc School
Martin Morgan Son - Male 4 1907 Pendleton Lanc
Address 15 Rossall St Pendleton Salford (Russell St)
Parish Pendleton
County Lancashire
Census reference RG14 PN24038 RG78 PN1383 RD465 SD3 ED25 SN211

(Married 10yrs, 4 children born, 2 living, 2 died)


Births Mar 1903 (>99%)
------------------------------------------
Morgan Rose Salford 8d 18


Baptism: 30 Jan 1903 Cathedral Church of St John the Evangelist, Salford, Lancashire, England
Rose Morgan - filia Thomas Morgan & Mary Ellen (formerly Mackroy)
Born: 14 Dec 1902
Abode: 15 Russell St
Godparents: Alice Gill
Baptised by: Stephen Wigmore
Register: Baptisms 1901 - 1908, Page 105, Entry 2
Source: Original Register at LRO Preston

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

You can certainly discount that 1864 marriage in Wigan Clive as 'that' Patrick Morgan married Isabella McClarnin, the other female on the page.

Dea x

Clive,

Can you give us ALL the details from that marriage cert to Mary Connell please, including and witnesses

Thanks,

Dea x

P.S. - just a useful point for future use - Just because his father is named as Patrick on there and it doesn't actually say he is deceased does not always prove that he is still alive. - It is often not noted whether someone is deceased or not.

Dea x

Thanks Clive I have found it now.

I just wanted to read through to see if there was any bit of info which might help on this particular query..

If anyone else wants to take a look through it for reference, it is here:

http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1348321?page=3

Back to this one now - I will have a dig around....

Dea x

Karin - in reply to your questions:
Does the death certificate state Thomas' occupation = it states he was a carter.
If marriage cert you have is correct does it state Patricks occupation? Patrick was a Hawker and alive
The marriage of Thomas and Mary Connell was in Catholic Church St John Evangelist.
I'm sure these certificates are correct and they do match the info I have and an earlier query I had was answered by Dea.
I was just after some thoughts on why I couldn't find Patrick and his family in the 1881 census. :-)

Dea - the other thread is there - and you answered the query about that for which I replied with thanks.
Jacqueline - no need to be annoyed - it is a different query I have raised (albeit it is still part of my family). And as a matter of interest - I joined GR years ago - but haven't been an active member until Jan this year when I posted my "first" query. This is my second.

But thanks for those who have taken the time to reply. I'm sorry for being a pain in reaching out for some assistance. I'll know better next time.

That's why FMP showed that I'd previously accessed records for Thomas Morgan

How annoying!!!!! Especially as Clive has been a GR member for so long

I think this is where I bow out

Clive - have you deleted your other thread on Thomas's marriage ?

There was a lot of info on there which might help but I can't find it ?

Dea x

These are all marriages with Mary Ellen as possible spouse in Lancashire with no date range given on FreeBMD

Marriages Sep 1870 (>99%)
MORGAN Thomas Manchester 8d 295
Marriages Jun 1878 (>99%)
MORGAN Thomas West Derby 8b 622
Marriages Jun 1896 (>99%)
Morgan Thomas Manchester 8d 452
Marriages Dec 1896 (>99%)
Morgan Thomas William F Prescot 8b 1074
Marriages Jun 1898 (>99%)
Morgan Thomas Chorlton 8c 1435
Marriages Jun 1900 (>99%)
Morgan Thomas Ashton 8d 1005

Hi Clive some questions for you
Does the death certificate state Thomas' occupation (I assume you have the correct Thomas Morgan death certificate - I'm not implying anything by this - I spent a while searching with a wrong cert.!)
If marriage cert you have is correct does it state Patricks occupation?

FamilySearch.org has another couple of options for you but they probably throw a spanner in the works
Thomas Morgan
mentioned in the record of Thomas Morgan and Mary Ellen Harrison
Name: Thomas Morgan
Event Type: Marriage
Event Date: 25 Jul 1878
Event Place: Cheshire, England
Gender: Male
Spouse's Name: Mary Ellen Harrison
GS Film number: 1885411 , Digital Folder Number: 4018552 , Image Number: 769
This marriage obviously is not in Lancashire and throws his date of birth right out but its a possibility.

Also found an 1881 census with Patrick as father but different mother!!
Thomas Morgan
England and Wales Census, 1881
Name: Thomas Morgan
Age (Original): 12
Gender: Male
Birth Year: 1869
Birthplace: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Relationship to Head of Household: Son
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Scholar
Address: 9 Meadow St
Event Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Record Type: Household
Affiliate Publication Number: RG11
Piece/Folio: 3593 / 71
Page Number: 31
Household Role Gender Age Birthplace
Patrick Morgan Head M 52 Ireland
Bridget Morgan Wife F 47 Ireland
Mary Morgan Daughter F 16 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Thomas Morgan Son M 12 Liverpool, Lancashire, England
GS Film number: 1341860
Again this throws out possible DOB for your Thomas but who knows it may help.

Thanks for the updates and suggestions.
The only marriage (BMD ref) in Lancashire between 1861 and 1866 between Patrick Morgan and margaret is this one Sep 1864 at Wigan. BMD 8c p108. BUT - that doesn't seem to fit with the family living in Manchester/Salford - so I've discounted that.
Patrick doesn't appear on census records 1861 so "assume" he wasn't in England then - was in Ireland.

The Births Dec 1866 (>99%) Morgan Thomas Manchester 8d 281 - is a certificate I applied for and isn't him.

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page
Births Dec 1866 (>99%)
Morgan Thomas Manchester 8d 281