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Thanks Joonie, we had explored that but unfortunately we don't believe that he ever married his second 'wife' :-(
Dea x
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it's hard reading through a long thread (and I am not even going to attempt the other one) but I'm just wondering whether it's been picked up that the wife in 1911 was a second wife
'(Married 10yrs, 4 children born, 2 living, 2 died)'
that is, married after the births of the two older children
and the baptism record for Rose with
'Mary Ellen (formerly Mackroy)'
just wondering whether the second marriage certificate might give any further info about Patrick that could be useful
but I can't find a marriage ...
Deaths Jun 1897 ?
Morgan Mary Ellen 25 Salford 8d 71
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The tree owner has no more info than we have, unfortunately - nothing going back at all
It might be worth me trying to contact him to see if he has any new info
I will do it within the next day or two
Dea Xxx
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Dea,
thank you so much. I've got the attachments. This is all new stuff now. Do you mind me asking but does the tree on Ancestry have more info about the Morgan family or was John Henry picked up because he had married Mary Furness?
Is it worth me subscribing to that website also?
brilliant work and thanks. :-D
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O.K. then - I am back............
This is what I have found and I am going to try to send you the certs by pm. - As I am not very 'technical', please let me know if you receive them.
John Henry Morgan
Birth 29th october 1872 in Pendleton salford lancaster
Death 30th october 1936 in salford south lancashire
Birth Certificate
Adoption Decree
Marriage Certificate
Death Certificate
Birth
1872 29 Oct
Pendleton salford lancaster
Residence
1891 Age: 19
Pendleton, Lancashire, England
Marriage to Mary Eliza Furness
1896 3 Aug Age: 23
salford lancashire england
Adoption of a daughter - (Have removed the details in case she is still alive but have sent you the cert by pm) !
1934 4 Oct Age: 61
Death
1936 30 Oct Age: 64
salford south lancashire
Residence
2 Bank Street, Pendleton Salford
Dea x
Winess to John Henry's wedding:
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
9, Lord Street, Pendleton, Salford, Lancashire, England
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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
***Joseph B Wyers Head Married Male 33 1868 Blacksmith Staffordshire, England
Mary Wyers Wife Married Female 36 1865 - Wolverhampton, Staffordshire, England
Jno Lever Visitor Single Male 27 1874 Striker To Blacksmith Staffordshire, England
Marriages Dec 1886 ?????
DAVIES Mary Salford 8d 30 Scan available - click to view
Edmead Frederick Leo Salford 8d 30 Scan available - click to view
PERKIN Florence Maude Salford 8d 30 Scan available - click to view
Wyers Joseph Benjamin Salford 8d 30 Scan available - click to view
other witness:
1901 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
31, Hedwig Street, Pendleton, Salford, Lancashire, England
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Margaret Hughes Head Widow Female 60 1841 Provision Shop Keeper Manchester, Lancashire, England
??????
1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Hope Street, Salford, Lancashire, England
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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Charles Hughes Head Married Male 52 1839 Beerhouse Keeper Manchester, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Margaret Hughes Wife Married Female 52 1839 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Alfred Hughes Son - Male 14 1877 Striker Salford, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Thomas Reynold Boarder Single Male 49 1842 Labourer Manchester, Lancashire, England
or.......
1881 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
38, Lord Nelson Street, Salford, Lancashire, England
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Household Members
First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Hughes Head Married Male 45 1836 Fustian Cutter Salford, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Margaret Hughes Wife Married Female 40 1841 - Manchester, Lancashire, England
Transcription
William Hughes Son Single Male 20 1861 Clerk (Comm) Salford, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Samuel Hughes Son Single Male 18 1863 Porter Irlam, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Edward Hughes Son Single Male 16 1865 Ustian Cutter Salford, Lancashire, England
Transcription
John Hughes Son Single Male 7 1874 Scholar Salford, Lancashire, England
Transcription
Mary Ellen Hughes Daughter Single Female 3 1878 - Salford, Lancashire, England
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thanks. I don't use Ancestry - only this for forums and find my past for info
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Can't stop just now as I'm in the middle of cooking lunch but will be back when we have finished!
Do you have access to Ancestry??
There is a tree on there with him on + they have all the certs etc.
If you don't have access I will send them to you later.
Dea Xxx
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Dea,
Gosh! I didn't even know about John Henry. I'll follow this up - I've just found an entry on census 1891. I can't find details that show him being a son of Patrick and Margaret though. Where did you find that please?
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Hi Clive - still haven't found them.......yet !
I can't remember if you have the details on Thomas's younger brother John Henry - son of Patrick & Margaret. He was born in 1872?
Dea x
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When my grandparents were married in 1905 the cert shows his address as 6 Back Borough St. and hers as No. 8 !!
By 1911 they had moved all the way to No.4.
It's a small world isn't it ? - It certainly was in those days living in Salford :-D
Dea x
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And I've just realised that in 1890 at 6 Back Borough St, Thomas Morgan (son of Patrick) and Mary (formerly Connell) had a baby called Sarah Elizabeth.
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Dea,
thanks for the info. I hadn't been aware of Francis.
Where did you do searches for baptism records?
Re: 4 Back Borough Street - is that the same Back Borough Street in Pendleton then? If so that's spooky!!
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Well, it does all sound a very plausible theory Clive but I should like to find them in 1881.
I have been looking all morning but have not got any further.
I thought that address seeemed very familiar and I now know why !! - 4 Back Borough Street was the home of my paternal grandparents on 1911 census :-D :-D :-D
One thing I did find was a probable child for Patrick and Margaret which I don't know if you knew about ?
Baptism: 25 Jan 1874 St Peter, Greengate, Lancashire, England
Franciscus Augustus Morgan - filius Patricii Morgan & Margaritae
Born: 19 Jan 1874
Godparents: Martin Walsh; Birgita Walsh
Baptised by: Henricus Beswick M. C.
Register: Baptisms 1868 - 1877, Page 208
Source: Original Register at LRO Preston
(Smiths Buildings was 'Greengate' !! )
Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1874
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
MORGAN Francis Salford Regent Road Salford RR/95/78
Births Mar 1874 (>99%)
MORGAN Francis Salford 8d 116
Sadly he seems to have died soon after birth:
Deaths Mar 1874 (>99%)
MORGAN Francis 0 Salford 8d 76
I will keep looking.......................
Dea x
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Hi everybody...after a bit more help with a theory of mine.....if you please??
This is in relation to the Patrick Morgan
census 1871 living at 13c Smiths Buildings - St Philips ecclesiastical district Salford.
Patrick Morgan Head - Male 34 1837 - Ireland
Margaret Morgan Wife - Female 25 1846 - England
Thomas Morgan Son - Male 5 1866 - England
Sarah Morgan Daughter - Female 4 1867 - England
As I cannot find the family in census 1871 and nor can I find a birth for Thomas Morgan (that matches with the known father and mother) around 1866/65 in Manchester/Salford. So I turned attention to Sarah and I was able to find a birth record for Sarah Morgan
Possible birth:
Births Mar 1867 (>99%)
Morgan Sarah Salford 8d 24
I also found an entry for a Patrick Morgan on Census 1891.
Patrick Morgan
Inmate
Marital status Widower **
Age 57
Birth year 1834
Occupation General Labourer
Birth place Ireland
With this info I looked for deaths for Margaret Morgan before 1891. I found,
Deaths Dec 1882 (>99%)
Morgan Margaret 36 Salford 8d 67
So I sent off for the 2 certs, birth for Sarah and death for Margaret and found...
Sarah born march 1867 father = Patrick Morgan (spade labourer) and mother Margaret Morgan formerly Jones. They lived at back borough Street, Pendleton.
and Margaret died Oct 1882 in the Union Workhouse age 36. Husband is Patrick Morgan a labourer of 4 Back Borough Street Pendleton.
So I've linked Patrick, Margaret and Sarah between 1867 and 1882.
The only family that I can find on 1871 census shows 3 of these and Thomas but living at 13c Smiths Buildings - St Philips ecclesiastical district Salford.
I'm working on a theory that Thomas wasn't born in Pendleton/Salford (as I can't find a record for him) that they lived at Back Borough Street (where Sarah was born), they moved to Smith Buildings by 1871, left the area before 1881 (as I can't find them on this census), returned by 1882 and moved back to the Back Borough Street. Margaret dies in 1882, Sarah presumably gets married, Thomas gets married to Mary Connell and appears on the 1891 census.
Does my theory look plausible or can anybody find holes in it? Also, any idea, with this info why I can't find Thomas birth cert and why I can't find a marriage between Patrick Morgan and Margaret Jones.
Thanks
:-)
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As an aside does anybody have a link to an ecclesiastical map of Pendleton and Salford for the period 1890? Thanks
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Thanks for the info from the cert Clive.
I was hoping that the witnesses might be related but having checked out William Cronshaw and Charlotte (nee Leach), it appears they were just 'friends' :-(
Still looking..............
Dea x
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Worth a look round on google Clive at things Catholic Baptisms, Lancs has that OPC, with Parish Clerks who are helpful, or local FHS groups, saying that, surprising what Ancestry and Find My Past hold, somebody else here may have better local knowledge, I tend to 'stab around in the dark' lol, with that area!.
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/PendletonS/
http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Salford/
http://www.mlfhs.org.uk/data/catholic_churches.php
Chris :)
(not sure who Godparent Alice Gill was, a couple about Salford 1911)
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