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Potty - Sarah's details tie in with what I have. She married a Mr Smith and then a Mr Marshall.

So at this level I have the correct family. Based upon a death certificate I have for Thomas Henry Morgan in 23/11/1946 - he was 54 - he was born in 1892.

On the birth cert for Th H Morgan 1892 - it says his mother is Mary Connell and father was Thomas (foundry labourer) and they lived in Pendleton.

Sister Sarah in 1911:

Name:Sarak Eligate Smith
[Sarah Elizabeth Smith]
Age in 1911:22
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1889
Relation to Head:Wife
Gender:Female
Birth Place:Jendleton, Greater Manchester, England
[Pendleton Manchester]
Civil Parish:Stockport
County/Island:Cheshire
Country:England
Street address:10 Violet Street
Marital Status:Married
Registration district:Stockport
Registration District Number:
Joshua Smith 23
Sarak Eligate Smith 22

Her 1st marriage:

Marriages Mar 1910 (>99%)

BENNETT Amy Kate Stockport 8a 89 Scan available - click to view
HAZELDINE Norman Cecil Stockport 8a 89 Scan available - click to view
MORGAN Sarah Elizabeth Stockport 8a 89 Scan available - click to view
SMITH Joshua Stockport 8a 89

Her 2nd marriage:

Name:Sarah Elizabeth Smith - widow
[Sarah Elizabeth Morgan]
Gender:Female
Birth Year:abt 1890
Marriage Age:35
Marriage Date:26 Dec 1925

Marriage Place:Stockport, Cheshire, England

Church:Trinity Wesleyan Chapel

Father Name:Thomas Morgan

Spouse Name: William Edwin Marshall
Spouse Marriage Age:42
Spouse Father Name:Charles Marshall

Jacqueline - I noticed I had a typo in my original post. Death of Mary is 1894 (not 81) which is why I assume Thomas is born (1892) to Mary.

Potty - yes that is his name Thomas Henry. Marriage cert 1916 at Charlestown.
Father name = Thomas Morgan, Labourer living at 5 Gladstone St at time of marriage.

Well, the groom's occupation certainly matches the 1911 census, so that would appear to be the right family, but where they were in 1901 is anyone's guess.

It did happen that people were missed for whatever reason..............

You didn't mention the second forename

Marriages Sep 1916 (>99%)
Bainbridge Annie Morgan Salford 8d 14
Morgan Thomas H Bainbridge Salford 8d 14


How could this be the child of a woman who died in 1891?

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1892
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
MORGAN Thomas H Pendleton Salford PEN/127/50

Birth registered JUNE Qtr

Thomas had a middle name:

Name:Thomas Henry Morgan - Hawker, 5 Gladstone St
Birth Year:abt 1892
Age:24
Marriage Date:30 Sep 1916
Parish:Charlestown, St George
Parish as it Appears:Charlestown
Father's Name:Thomas Morgan - Labourer
Spouse's Name:Annie Bainbridge
Spouse's Father's Name:William Bainbridge

Does he name his father as Thomas on his marriage cert?

And does the father's occupation match that on the censuses?

What was the groom's address?

Where did Thomas b 1892 come from? Too young to be on the 1891 so what makes you think the 1911 census is for the same family?

??????????
Births Mar 1903 (>99%)
MORGAN Rose Salford 8d 18

Lancashire Birth indexes for the years: 1906
Surname Forename(s) Sub-District Registers At Mother's Maiden Name Reference
MORGAN Martin Salford Greengate Salford GRE/196/48

:-D :-S
I am related to a Thomas Morgan born in 1892 who married Annie Bainbridge in 1916. I know that he lived in Salford. I know that he had two sisters Margaret and Sarah. I have attempted to work back from that....

I can't find any of the 1911 family in 1901; can't find birth records for Florrie and Rose (have looked under Pat* as well as Morgan) and can't find a Mary Ellen Paton either!

1891 for INFO

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription
Chapel Place, Pendleton, Salford, Lancashire, England


First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place
Thomas Morgan Head Married Male 25 1866 General Labourer Manchester, Lancashire, England Transcription
Mary Morgan Wife Married Female 22 1869 - Salford, Lancashire, England Transcription
Margaret Morgan Daughter - Female 3 1888 - Pendleton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Sarah E Morgan Daughter - Female 1 1890 - Pendleton, Lancashire, England Transcription
Mary A Thompson Lodger Single Female 18 1873 Reeler Of Cotton Lancaster, Lancashire, England Transcription

No, I'm saying the woman in 1911 probably wasn't his wife

Who are you actually related to?

The problem I have is that I can't find the 1891 family in 1901. If I could access that census record it would help decide whether the 1911 details are the same people/family.

ok, so the 1911 people aren't the same as the 1891 people, is that what you are thinking?

So they lied?

It happened..................

probably a good idea to get a birth cert for one of the later children........Martin's would be best, as his name is the most unusual for the time

Thanks but..
Potty - the problem is that there isn't a marriage recorded in 1900, the nearest that matches is the one that Jacqueline has found 1896.

Jacueline - the 1911 census details match - the Thomas (1867) and Thomas (1892) can be found on 1891 census. I can't find them on the 1901 census though?

On the 1911 census it says Mary Ellen had 4 children, two of which had died so Rosie and Martin must be her children.

If Thomas's first wife Mary died in 1891 then the other children on the 1911 census - Thomas, May and Florrie must have been born to someone else.

Kath. x