Find Ancestors

Name: Elizabeth Roach
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: 15 May 1870
Event Place: Weymouth, Massachusetts
Gender:
Race:
Registration Date:
Registration Place:
Christening Date:
Christening Place:
Christening Age:
Death Date:
Death Age:
Father's Name: John Roach
Father's Titles and Terms:
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth White
Mother's Titles and Terms:
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Paternal Grandfather's Name:
Paternal Grandmother's Name:
Maternal Grandfather's Name:
Maternal Grandmother's Name:
Additional Relatives:
Reference ID: 357
GS Film number: 1428073
Digital Folder Number: 4383924
Image Number: 722

I have no idea if the couple breeding in Massachusetts are the same as your William Roach and Elizabeth White.

Marriage?????

1854 not 1834 as you said, 1854 makes more sense, suspect 1834 was a typo

NOTE Both parents are said to be born in Ireland, as were the Elizabeth White and John Roach who were parents of Hannah Roach baptised in Massachusetts as posted above.

"India, Marriages, 1792-1948 "
Name: John Roach<<<<<<<<<<<
Birth Date:
Birthplace:
Age:
Spouse's Name: Elizabeth White<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Birth Date:
Spouse's Birthplace:
Spouse's Age:
Event Date: 28 Jun 1854
Event Place: Secunderabad, Madras, India
Father's Name: John Roach<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mother's Name:
Spouse's Father's Name: William White<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Spouse's Mother's Name:
Race:
Marital Status:
Previous Wife's Name:
Spouse's Race:
Spouse's Marital Status:
Spouse's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00059-5
System Origin: India-EASy
GS Film number: 463297
Reference ID:

???????????????????

Name: Hannah Roach<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: 28 Jan 1868
Event Place: Weymouth, Norfolk, Massachusetts
Gender:
Race: W
Registration Date:
Registration Place:
Christening Date:
Christening Place:
Christening Age:
Death Date:
Death Age:
Father's Name: John Roach<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Father's Titles and Terms:
Father's Birthplace: Ireland<<<<<<<<<<<
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth White<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Mother's Titles and Terms:
Mother's Birthplace: Ireland<<<<<<<<<<
Mother's Age:
Paternal Grandfather's Name:
Paternal Grandmother's Name:
Maternal Grandfather's Name:
Maternal Grandmother's Name:

also:

Name: Ellen Roach
Titles and Terms:
Event Type: Birth
Event Date: 01 May 1872
Event Place: Weymouth, , Massachusetts, United States
Gender:
Race:
Registration Date:
Registration Place:
Christening Date:
Christening Place:
Christening Age:
Death Date:
Death Age:
Father's Name: John Roach
Father's Titles and Terms:
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Elizabeth White
Mother's Titles and Terms:
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Paternal Grandfather's Name:
Paternal Grandmother's Name:
Maternal Grandfather's Name:
Maternal Grandmother's Name:
Additional Relatives:
Reference ID: p 388
GS Film number: 1428075
Digital Folder Number: 4341190
Image Number: 973

Well, of the two candidates for Edith Winifred Yates, I think Edith Winifred Mabel has already been successfully ruled out, but her birth date is also out with the 1886 birth in your new found source.

Births Dec 1884 Yates Edith Winifred M Hendon 3a 156

The baptism I posted for Winifred Edith was 1887, as was her birthdate.

Did the marriage have a father for Edith Winifred? Would be so nice if it were Henry...

Nor sure where to start checking out the rest. Roach could be Ireland, Scotland as well as India and England. :-(

Good progress if you can confirm it though. ;-)

EDIT: 1872 was given as JAR's year of birth in his death record posted by +++DetEcTive+++ on page 1 of this thread. Information on the death reg is only as good as the knowledge of the informant. They might easily have got the birthday right, but the year wrong.

Kucinta and Dea,
I think I may have stumbled over one of my answers, whilst working on a totaly new tree on the the FHL site Icame across a John Anthony Roach date of birth 19.03.1872 not 1873 as we have been using. date of death was the same.
Their code is LDRL-1PB.
WIFE Edith Winifred Yates 1886 - 1918 Their code LDRG-MM1
Married Jan 1903 in Secunderabad Andhra Pradesh.
Parents of J A R - John Roach LDRL-B2H
Elizabeth White LDRL-BPK
MARRIED 28TH jUNE 1834.
Added to FHL system in Sept. 2013 by MMBQ-DGZ.
So one of my original questions seems to be solved but can one of you please please confirm it?

regards Rick

Well, she is Edith Winifred, or a variation thereof as both names show up in her children's baptisms.

It's her maiden name and her origins we don't know.

I think I'll deleat Edith Winifred Yates from the tree although I might upset a few of the other tree owners and leave it blank for a while. I have also found other inconsistances in the tree so another one is not to be expected.
I think we can discount the Oscar Tully on the ship.

There is a Tully family in the Madras region originating with James Tully born c1839 Madras, son of Robert, who had several children by his second wife Alice. However some baptism and marriages are recorded on familysearch, which I don't think would be the case if they were catholic baptisms, though I stand to be corrected.

According to a tree on Ancestry James had 12 children by second wife Alice Sophie Beebie between 1870 and 1893, including 8 sons, though I have no idea of the accuracy of this, as the tree is unsourced.

I did wonder if there was some connection to Edward Saxton Tully, but certainly cannot make such a connection myself. There are other Tullys in the area also.. Again, red herring territory?

I realise this is grasping at straws and goes totally against the cardinal rule of start with what you know is certain and work back from there. :-(

No idea if this is 'your' Oscar:

Name: Oscar N Tully
Port of Departure: Beira, Mozambique
Arrival Date: 15 Aug 1939
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ports of Voyage: Beira
[Dar es Salaam]
[Mombasa]
Ship Name: Malda

Shipping Line: British India Steam Navigation Company Ltd<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Official Number: 146286

Almost certainly not, only 5 months old. Father Percival E. civil servant aged 52 and Mrs Lisbeth C aged 37. heading for 38 Leighon Road Itchen. Last abode Tanganyika. no other children with them.

Hi Rick,

the post I'd deleted was just a notice in the London Gazette calling for anyone who thought they had a claim on Ursula Millicent Tully's estate to come forward, and mentioning Llewellyn Edward Tully.

After posting I realised this was your Mother in law so you'd know about it, and ditto the chap was almost certainly your bro in law, so you'd know about him as well, and basically my post wasn't taking us any further forward.

Sadly that seems true of most of mine - EST and JAR are remaining very elusive :-(

Unfortunately not finding very much at all.

BTW, do you know Edith Winifred's maiden name from your research? I guess I'm wondering whether she was indeed a Yates, or whether that surname might be a complete red herring.

Thanks Dea and Kucinta that clears up things a bit and makes more sense. Please put in all you find it wont upset us as we have both worked in the medical profession. If it is any help I spoke to sister-in-law and she said that their family were Roman Catherlics until her father had a falling out with the priest over birth control. He is interred in St Joseph's in Kezipet. He had two brothers called James and Oscar, but more info later when she has found all the details.

Thank goodness for that - I thought I was seeing things. ;-)

I didn't put much info on mine as it was quite recent but I will delete it anyway, just in case.

Dea x

I don't know if the ancestry tree compiler had a reason for deciding on Edith Winifred Mabel Yates, and whether he somehow knew Edith W's maiden name was indeed Yates.

(I did pm a copy of both censuses and the marriage I just found to the tree owner.)

If so, names reversed, and a long way from Madras, but?????


Name: Winifred Edith Yates
Gender: Female
Christening Date: 28 Sep 1887
Christening Place: Girgaum, Bombay, India
Birth Date: 19 Mar 1887
Birthplace:
Death Date:
Name Note:
Race:
Father's Name: Henry Yates
Father's Birthplace:
Father's Age:
Mother's Name: Grace
Mother's Birthplace:
Mother's Age:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: C58000-5
System Origin: India-EASy
GS Film number: 523861
Reference ID: v 61 p 207

Might be total red herring...

I'm finding this SO frustrating, so who knows how Rick feels!

Yes, I thought about it and realised Richard would know, as it was his mother in law, and maybe it was a bit too recent and personal.

:-(

Kucinta,

Have you deleted a post or am I going seriously 'doolally' ??

Dea Xxx

Edith Winifred Mabel Yates seems to have married in 1911 so she can't be John Anthony Roach's wife:

Marriages Jun 1911
Chopping Henry J Pancras 1b 96
James William Pancras 1b 96
Redman Lily G Pancras 1b 96
Yates Edith W M Pancras 1b 96<<<<<<<

Name: Edith Winifred Mabel Yates<<<<<<<<<<<<
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1885
Age: 26
Spouse Name: William James
Spouse Age: 26
Record Type: Marriage
Event Date: 3 Jun 1911
Parish: Kentish Town St Martin
Borough: Camden
Father Name: Alfred Yates<<<<<<<<<
Spouse Father: Henry James
Register Type: Parish Register

I'm not convinced the ancestry tree has the right bride for John Anthony Roach in Edith Winifred Mabel Yates.

I believe I have found her in census 1911 with widowed father Alfred still in London and still single.

Census 1911:

Address: 76 Arlington Road St Pancras N W County: London

YATES, Alfred Head Widower M 63 1848 House Agent London St Marylebone<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
YATES, Maria Daughter Single F 38 1873 London St Marylebone
YATES, Emma Daughter Single F 34 1877 London St Marylebone
YATES, Sophia Daughter Single F 32 1879 London St Pancras N W
YATES, Adelaide Daughter Single F 31 1880 Silk Lamp Shademaker London St Pancras N W
YATES, Edith Daughter Single F 26 1885 Silk Lamp Maker Wembley Sudbury<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
YATES, Amy Daughter Single F 24 1887 London St Pancras N W
YATES, Lydia Daughter Single F 21 1890 London St Pancras N W
YATES, Arthur Son Single M 20 1891 Porter Jeweller London St Pancras N W
YATES, Annie Daughter Single F 15 1896 Gold Embroider London St Pancras N W


Death of mother? Maria Louisa C rather than Maria Amelia Caroline...

Deaths Sep 1899 Yates Maria Louisa C 49 Pancras 1b 12

EDIT: On the baptisms of children Annie, Lydia and Arthur, Maria is Maria Louisa Caroline Yates. Address 76 Arlington Road.


at the same address in 1901 Edith is Edith W.

Census 1901

Address: 76, Arlington Road, St Pancras County: London

YATES, Alfred Head Widower M 53 1848 Carpenter Marylebone, London
YATES, Maria C Daughter Single F 28 1873 Marylebone, London
YATES, Sophia E Daughter Single F 22 1879 Silk Lamp Shade Maker
St Pancras, London
YATES, Adelaide E Daughter Single F 21 1880 Silk Lamp Shade Maker
St Pancras, London
YATES, George H Son Single M 19 1882 Plumber Mates
St Pancras, London
YATES, Edith W Daughter Single F 16 1885 Silk Lamp Shade Maker
Wembley Sudbury, Suffolk<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
YATES, Amy B F Daughter Single F 14 1887 St Pancras, London
YATES, Lydia M Daughter Single F 11 1890 St Pancras, London
YATES, Arthur R Son Single M 9 1892 St Pancras, London
YATES, Annie L R Daughter Single F 5 1896 St Pancras, London

EDIT: It IS the same Edith Winfred Mabel Yates as on her baptism, that I posted earlier, the actual image of the baptism register has father Alfred's occupation as carpenter, and the address as 76 Arlington Road Camden Town, which is the same as in censuses 1901 and 1911 in this post. Edith was baptised the same date as younger sister Amy Blanche Flora, who also appears in both census 1901, and 1911, after the Roaches were already producing children in India.

The tree also did not have any details at all as to when the supposed marriage took place, or where.

Thanks for all the help. I have even tried the East India Company and been on the Forces reunion site as I am ex-Royal Navy but still no joy. I hope that I shall have a bit more info this evening as I am talking to my wife's youngest sister who is said to have mother-in-laws marriage certificate. I'll keep you posted.

Regards Rick

I am still working on it but getting no further :-( :-( :-(

Dea Xxx

Richard might well know all this already - we're still stuck on the original question of where John Anthony Roach and Edward Saxton Tully appeared from and their antecedents :-(