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Hi Jan,
We are about to embark on university visits, so I think I will suggest a trip to Kent uni!
Fingers crossed...
Eleanor

Hi Eleanor.
Electoral registers show occupants of voting age, which in 1934 was everyone 21 and over. There is no more detail. Bu if you find someone there with the same surname then they will be a family member which might give you something else to go on. Worth a try I would say
Jan

Continuing search for Veronica / Vera...

I've emailed the Kent History & Library centre to see if they have the electoral registers for Tunbridge Wells and how I go about searching them if I organise a visit to Maidstone. (No reply yet I might have to ring them).

Can anyone please suggest any other info I can get from them, that might help me find Vera's birth, parents etc?

My mother-in-law looked at the marriage certificate and thinks Alfred's occupation was an "overseer in a gold mine". I don't believe there were any gold mines in Tunbridge Wells! Could it have been Wales or overseas? I wonder how he met Vera?

Any thoughts please?!
Eleanor

Thanks Jan, Janet & Maryb.
I'm away from a computer for the next week, so I'll give the electoral register idea a try when I get back...unless it is online and anyone has access??

I haven't heard back from John Ansell. Last week, I spoke to a woman who ran the home where Mabel Victoria Watkins lived until she died in 1993 (someone ?? had put the details on the family search website, which I found several years ago). I was told that Mabel had very few visitors and certainly no family around. Apparently William had been closest to this sister, a nurse in Bournemouth. So I'm not holding out much hope that John Ansell or his siblings will be able to tell me anything.

I really appreciate the interest, help, suggestions, and information, from you all Thank-you!
Eleanor

Just to add the suggestion re a possible error on a cert.

I have a birth cert issued and it has 3 amendments! Where it has been reproduced for me by GRO there is text before the first column (so everything has shuffled across the cert) and what looks like (in words) Three and underneath initials of the registrar, then Four and again initials underneath and Five and same initials underneath - they agree with the registrar signature. To agree with that there are the numbers 3, 4 and 5 - amending date of birth, name and surname of father (crossed through) and when registered (month amended).

So I presume 2 points:

1 - The mother either gave confused/incorrect/false/unacceptable info (or all of them) and it had to be amended.
2 - As the cert was end of December/beginning of January, there must have been amendments prior to that numbered 1 and 2 on another / other certs.

My conclusion would be that a similar thing happened with Vera/Veronica's wedding cert - in that an amendment was made to the spelling of the father's name.

Janet

PS Sure I've read about amendments somewhere too

Another random suggestion!! Have you tried looking at the electoral register for Madeira Park in 1934? I suspect it won't tell you much but worth a look. Not sure if anyone can access this online, as they did previously.
Jan

I have had a look at the certificate for Vera and Alfred.
I also think that is (deceased in brackets)

I think the 4 above the E is some sort of code for an error.
When you look at the end where it says Four and initialed NRS which is the initials of the registrar Neville R Stone?

It seems as though Vera didn't know much about her dad at all,not even his first name.
Her mum not have even been married to a Mr Bebbington.

I'm no help at all on this one.


Maryb.

Just re-capping:

2 Aug 2012 17:34

'a little while ago I found a photo of a baby with Janet Ansell on the reverse. From that I managed to find 7 possible children (incl. John Ansell born 1936) of Effie's. When I joined a few days ago I found that a John Ansell also had Effie in his tree. I have messaged him and am eagerly waiting for a reply'

No luck here I guess? Seems somewhat drastic, but I suppose you could splash out and get Effie's death cert to find out who the informant was. Something of a long shot that family members will know anything though.

Looking back (and it's very complicated isn't it!) it seems the odds are that Vera Bebbington and Veronica Beddington really must be the same person. There are just so many co-incidences.

Jan

Have had a look and not much help really. I do think it says 'deceased' under father's surname, but unsure what it says above.
Jan

OK! PM sent.
Jan

Hi Jan,
Mary sent a PM asking the same. I've attempted to send it (I needed the help of a child!) but not sure if has got through. If you have time, it would be great if you could also take a look...
Thanks,
Eleanor

Do you want to email me the image? Happy to take a look.
Jan

Edit...In the box for Vera, where it says Father's Name and Surname is the following:
"-(4)
Bebbington"
Then the scrawl which may / may not read deceased

Thanks Jan! So it looks like the witnesses were probably Alfred's sister and brother- in-law. I'm pleased to have the confirmation that Alfred's father was a 'groom'. Just filling in the gaps makes me feel I'm moving forward!
Eleanor

Don't want to stray to far along the Mullender route, but this might be father- in which case groom would fit. Note daughter Annie.

1911 England Census
Name: Alfred Mullenden
Age in 1911: 30
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1881
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Ingham, Kent, England
Civil parish: Paddington
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: 11 Somers Mews, Radnor Place, Hyde Park
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: COACHMAN
Registration district: Paddington
Registration District Number: 1
Sub-registration district: Paddington South

Alfred Mullenden 30
Millicent Mullenden 29
Kathleen Mullenden 3
Annie Mullenden 2
Harry Grenham 24

Just to complicate things!!

Name: Percy W Ashby
Spouse Annie Mullender
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1928
Registration district: Tonbridge
Inferred County: Kent
Volume Number: 2a
Page Number: 2594

Possibly the Ashby family? Doesn't help though.

1911 England Census

Name: William Henry Ashby
Age in 1911: 52
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1859
Relation to Head: Head
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Tunbridge Wells, Kent
Civil parish: Tunbridge Wells
County/Island: Kent
Country: England
Street Address: 55 Madeira Park, Tunbridge Wells
Marital Status: Married
Occupation: Bank Cashier Retired Pensioner
Registration district: Tonbridge
Registration District Number: 50
Sub-registration district: Tunbridge Wells

William Henry Ashby 52
Ellen Ashby 42
Philip Theodore Ashby 5
Cicely Ellen Ashby 2
Marguerite Emily Dunk 16
Eliza Ann Avis 51

Any advice on where I go from here please?

I've got the marriage certificate with the following details:
Marriage solemnized at: the Register Office, Tonbridge, Kent
No. 144
Eleventh August 1934
Name: "Alfred Frederick Mullenden"
Age: "23 years"
Condition "Bachelor"
Profession: "Overseer in Gred (??) Mines"
Residence: "105 Silverdale Road, Tunbridge (??) Wells"
Father's name: "Alfred Mullenden"
Profession of father: "froom"??? (doesn't look like G for groom)
Name: "Vera Bebbington"
Age: "22 years"
Condition: "Spinster"
Profession: "Domestic servant"
Residence: "51 Maderia Park, Tunbridge (??) Wells
Father's name: "- 641 (??) Bebbington" ('a' in name was crossed out & replaced with e) word underneath a scrawl but could be "(deceased"... ?
Father's profession: "unknown"

The word "Four" and the registrar's initials appear to be written by the last box

Witnesses : Mrs ?? Annie Ashby, Percy ??W Ashby

If this is Veronica Watkins / Mullender's marriage certificate she obviously changed her name and the she was probably poor, so maybe I won't find out who her parents or family were?

Any help / suggestions or advice (even "give up"!...) gratefully received.

Eleanor

Hi all - a quick update on Vera / Veronica Bebbington / Beddington / Watkins!

I've received a reply from somone who is the daughter of a Raymond Bebbington and who had an auntie who was Vera Bebbington. Vera married a Wilf Eccleshaw and had one daughter. She died 25 / 30 years ago. Vera and Raymond's mother was Annie Hulse...So it doesn't look as though I've got my grandmother's family yet.

I've applied for the Mullenden / Bebbington marriage certificate to see if that gives me any other names to look for!

Eleanor

Thanks tempest! I don't suppose there is any way of telling if Leonard Sullivan was Corporal in WW1? I have a photo of a woman (dimple in chin is a family trait) with a man in uniform. He is a corporal and has a star cap badge which could be Cheshire regiment or Army Service Corps or ....? The photo was taken at 'The Parisian Studios, 27 Church St. Liverpool'. But I could be on the wrong track...!