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Hi Ginny,
Many thanks for all that info.
Thomas's first wife was Bertha Harvey - she had a child Maud Emily Judge in 1885. Since Emily was in the US and she had Thomas's child Letitia in 1886 (possibly 1888) I assume he must have gone there maybe to visit his father's grave and met up with Emily. He came back because Bertha had another child Cecil Stanley Judge b.Jun Q 1890.
Meanwhile Emily had married Hans Johnson in Manhattan on 15 March 1891.
Bertha died in 1892 and Emily came to Liverpool where Thomas met her and married her - Thomas William Judge to Emily Johnson Jun Q 1893 Liverpool 8b 63 - actual date 9 June 1893.
I think Emily's mother Mrs. Letitia Dunn came with her and possibly daughter Letitia (I don't have the passenger details NY to Liverpool) but Mrs. Letitia Dunn arrived in NY from Liverpool on the Teutonic 15 November 1894.
I would be most grateful if you can fill any more gaps! Passenger list details etc.
Thanks again
Barry

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941
about Thomas William Judge
Name: Thomas William Judge
Probate Date: 7 Oct 1921
Death Date: 31 Aug 1921
Death Place: Chelmsford, Essex, England
Registry: London

Of the Market House Chelmsford £5530. 2s 7d to Emily Judge, widow, Cecil Stanley Judge, manager and Walter Fortin Catt. merchant


1911
CATT, Walter Forlin Head Married
32 years M 61 1850 Grocer And Pension Merchants Wine Merchant Chatham Kent
CATT, Julia Wife Married F 53 1858 Wife Rettendon Essex
CATT, Ethel Daughter Single F 28 1883 Daughter Chelmsford Essex
CATT, Helen Daughter Single F 25 1886 Daughter Chelmsford Essex
CATT, Walter Ralph Son Single M 27 1884 Grocer And C Chelmsford Essex
WARREN, Francis Jessie Servant Single F 25 1886 Domestic Servant General Bradwell on Sea Essex

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
10047 Reference:
RG14PN10047 RG78PN529 RD194 SD2 ED2 SN47

Registration District:
Chelmsford Sub District:
Chelmsford Enumeration District:
2 Parish:
Chelmsford

Address:
6 Tindal Sqr Chelmsford County:
Essex

I was curious why Emily became Bertha. Maybe she didnt like the name Bertha and decided on Emily instead!


1911

JUDGE, Thomas William Head Married M 59 1852 Publician New York U S a Resident
JUDGE, Emily Wife
Married 17 years F 48 1863 Assisting In The Business Cambridge
JUDGE, Frank Harold Son Single M 16 1895 Assisting In The Business Cambridge
JUDGE, Annie Daughter Single F 14 1897 School Chelmsford Essex
JUDGE, Ellenor Maud Daughter Single F 12 1899 School Chelmsford Essex
JUDGE, Clara Ellen Daughter Single F 10 1901 School Chelmsford Essex VJUDGE, Irene Kate Daughter Single F 8 1903 School Chelmsford Essex
JUDGE, Caroline Doris Daughter Single F 7 1904 School Chelmsford Essex GYFORDS, Lucy Servant Single F 18 1893 General Servant Domestic Bishop Hertford

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG14 Piece:
10047 Reference:
RG14PN10047 RG78PN529 RD194 SD2 ED2 SN48

Registration District:
Chelmsford Sub District:
Chelmsford Enumeration District:
2 Parish:
Chelmsford

Address:
Market House Tindal St Chelmsford County:
Essex

Marriages Mar 1873 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HARVEY Bertha Dover 2a 1073
JUDGE Thomas William Dover 2a 1073

I take it Letitia is in still in the US?


Name: Thomas W Judge
Age: 39
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Bertha Judge
Gender: Male
Where born: New York, United States

Civil parish: St Andrew The Less
Ecclesiastical parish: St Barnabas
Town: Cambridge
County/Island: Cambridgeshire
Country: England

Registration district: Cambridge
Sub-registration district: St Andrew the Less
ED, institution, or vessel: 22
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 1285
Folio: 54
Page Number: 17
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas W Judge 39
Bertha Judge 36 <<<<Dover
Bertha A Judge 17
Stephen H Judge 15
Thomas W Judge 14
John A Judge 12
Maude E Judge 6
Cecil S Judge 10/12
Mary J Woods 18
John Underdown 33

1901 England Census
about Letitia Judge
Name: Letitia Judge
Age: 15
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1886
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: Thomas W Judge
Mother's name: Emily Judge
Gender: Female
Where born: United States

Civil parish: Chelmsford
Ecclesiastical parish: Chelmsford St Mary
Town: Chelmsford
County/Island: Essex
Country: England


Registration district: Chelmsford
Sub-registration district: Chelmsford
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 38
Piece: 1671
Folio: 31
Page Number: 8
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas W Judge 49 <<NY
Emily Judge 38 <<Dudley
Thomas W Judge 24
John A Judge 22
Letitia Judge 15
Cecil S Judge 10
Frank H Judge 6
Annie Judge 4
Ellene W Judge 2
Clara E Judge 8 Months
Annie L Shaw 32
Annie Sewell 20
Emily Mille 16


She travelling alone back to the US

New York Passenger Lists, 1820-1957
about Letitia Judge
Name: Letitia Judge
Arrival Date: 13 May 1909
Birth Year: abt 1885
Age: 24 Years 4 Months
Gender: Female
Port of Departure: Southampton
Port of Arrival: New York, New York
Ship Name: Teutonic
Search Ship Database: Search the Teutonic in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database

HI

I just noticed your name as the last poster on Ts lookup thread for the US

Can you tell T what you already have or she might spend loads of time duplicating the info you already have

I'll stick the link on her thread

Edit: Sorry, I see you have already put the link and a note on

x

1930 United States Federal Census
about Letta Mott
Name: Letta Mott
Home in 1930: Bridgeport, Fairfield, Connecticut
View Map
Age: 42
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation to Head of House: Wife
Spouse's Name: Harold V Mott
Race: White

Parents' birthplace: View image
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Harold V Mott 36
Letta Mott 42
Ronald Mott 19
Mary Mott 16
Wesley Mott 7

Connecticut Death Index, 1949-2001
about Letit J Mott
Name: Letit J Mott
Death Date: 26 Oct 1967
Death Place: Bridgeport, Fairfield, Connecticut
Age: 79 Years
Birth Date: abt 1888
Marital Status: Widowed
Spouse: Haro
State File #: 19404
Residence : Bridgeport, Fairfield, Connecticut
Gender: Female
Race: White

Social Security Death Index
about Letitia Mott
Name: Letitia Mott
SSN: 047-22-9874
Last Residence: 06606 Bridgeport, Fairfield, Connecticut, United States of America
Born: 12 Nov 1888
Died: Oct 1967
State (Year) SSN issued: Connecticut (Before 1951)



Newspaper: Bridgeport Post, The
Publication: 27 Oct 1967 - Bridgeport, Connecticut



Obit Friday Oct 27th 1967

Mrs Letia Judge Mott age 79. of 2242 East Main St. widow of Harold B Mott, died last night at her home.

Service will take place Monday. 11am ain the Albert W Spear funeral home, 1222 Fairfield Ave, Rev Alber W Sheckells, pastor of the First Baptist Church, burrial in Mountain Grove Cemetery.

Mrs Mott a native of NY City had lived there most of her life. Survivors are two sones, Ronald J, of Reading, PA and Wesley E Mott of Monroe, a daughter Mrs Marjorie Paternoster, of Bridgeport and five grandchildren and a great grandchild and several brothers and sisters in England


Reading through your thread I couldnt see this census so I thought I might as well add it to the mix!

1910 United States Federal Census
about Letitia Judge
Name: Letitia Judge
Age in 1910: 24
Estimated Birth Year: 1886
Birthplace: New York
Relation to Head of House: Niece
Father's Birth Place: New York
Mother's Birth Place: England
Home in 1910: Bridgeport, Fairfield, Connecticut
Marital Status: Single
Race: White
Gender: Female
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Isaac Dunn 49
Jane Dunn 48
Letitia Judge 24

Thanks Dee,
Isaac must have died within days of Annie Letitia being born. So she could have been his child.......or not.
John must have been John Lees' son but he doesn't seem to have used the name Lees - always appearing as John Dunn. There are no John Lees in Stourbridge 1869 but there are two John Dunn's!
Barry

Hi Barry,

I looked again at the oher Isaac Dunn born c.1840 and it's not your man and this confirms it;

Name: Isaac Dunn
Gender: Male
Burial Date: 10 Nov 1867
Burial Place: Dudley, Worcester, England
Death Date:
Death Place:
Age: 26
Birth Date: 1841
Birthplace:
Occupation:
Race:
Marital Status:
Spouse's Name:
Father's Name:
Father's Birthplace:
Mother's Name:
Mother's Birthplace:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: B03533-9
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1470601
Reference Number: Item 2 p337

Hi Barry,

Not sure whats happened...... I'm having a few probs on GR at the mo, very annoying!! If you don't hear from me it's cos I can't get onto the site!!

But I will be back as soon as possible. Just added very quickly to 1 thread and what should have took 2 mins took 30 mins.......... doin' me 'ead in.


Dee x

Hi Dee,
I think you are probably right. Maybe Isaac left after he found out Annie wasn't his. From what I read divorce was uncommon amongst ordinary folk - they just parted and said they were widowed when wanting to marry again.
I think John born 1869 was probably the son of John Lees but not sure if he was registered as Lees or Dunn. There is a John Lees Dec Q 1869 in Kings Norton but also two John Dunn's in Stourbridge 1869. Maybe Letitia had already parted from John Lees by the time he was born. He appears with Letitia's maiden name in 1871 and as Dunn afterwards.
Once again thanks for all your help.
Barry
Edit: In the time it took me to answer your last post, it disappeared!!!
Did someone delete it?

Hello again Dee, Chris and mgnv,
Again many thanks for all your efforts in unravelling this one!
I'm still trying to puzzle out how the Dunn's met up with the Shaw's.
Charles Shaw started out as a railway goods porter in Derby and by 1871 was a goods guard in Cambridge. I'm also interested in the history of the railways and surprisingly the network was already big by 1860. There was a line from Derby to Leicester and from there to Birmingham and also to Cambridge via Peterborough. So it's possible Charles met his wife in the Cambridge area and the Dunn family in the Birmingham area - goods trains were rather slow and he would have to have stayed overnight away from home. He could even have fathered Annie Letitia!
It looks like Letitia's last child with Isaac Dunn was Walter in 1866.
Annie was born 5.11.1867 and John was born in 1869 after Letitia's marriage to John Lees.
I can't find a death for Isaac senior though!
Barry

Once again thanks for all this!
I'm away in Sydney for a couple of days looking after my grandson,so will get back to this tomorrow.
Barry

A search of the LDS library catalog gets:

Film or fiche number 1656689

Title Parish registers for St. Peter's Church, Liverpool, 1704-1919
Authors Church of England. St. Peter's Church (Liverpool, Lancashire) (Main Author)
Notes Microfilm of original records at the Liverpool Record Office.

Barry look what I've found;

Groom's Name: Thomas William Judge
Groom's Birth Date: 1851
Groom's Birthplace:
Groom's Age: 42
Bride's Name: Emily Johnson
Bride's Birth Date: 1862
Bride's Birthplace:
Bride's Age: 31
Marriage Date: 09 Jun 1893
Marriage Place: Liverpool, Lancashire, England
Groom's Father's Name: Stephen Judge
Groom's Mother's Name:
Bride's Father's Name: Isaac Dunn
Bride's Mother's Name:
Groom's Race:
Groom's Marital Status: Widowed
Groom's Previous Wife's Name:
Bride's Race:
Bride's Marital Status: Widowed
Bride's Previous Husband's Name:
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M00784-6
System Origin: England-EASy
Source Film Number: 1656689
Reference Number: it 3, p 169, no 337

Lol Dee, if only...
Talk about muddle, can say Baz has my sympathy with this lot...(don't think I dare add the answer is out there somewhere, lol)

Oh 'eck Chris.......... looks like there must be a Shaw link.

I gotta go out so will be popping back later and hopefully you'll have solved it for Baz.

I'm soooo pleased my ancestors were quite simple to trace and kept things nice and easy for me, bless them. :-)

England & Wales, National Probate Calendar (Index of Wills and Administrations),1861-1941
about Martha Burleigh Shaw
Name: Martha Burleigh Shaw
Probate Date: 5 Oct 1908
Death Date: 20 Sep 1908
Death Place: Cambridgeshire, England
Registry: Peterborough

(of Victoria Road, Probate to Annie Letitia Shaw Dunn. Effects £276 18s 3d)

Just noticed above, Annie's mother...below on 1901 census (Annie then in Chelmsford with Thomas & Co.)

1901

SHAW, Martha Burleigh Head Widow F 66 1835 Laundress
Cambridge
BUFFET, Lizzie Anne Servant Single F 17 1884 Domestic Servant
Weston Colville
Cambridgeshire
JUDGE, Maud Emily Niece Single F 16 1885
Liverpool

RG number:
RG13 Piece:
1524 Folio:
105 Page:
10

Registration District:
Chesterton Sub District:
Fulbourn Enumeration District:
5 Ecclesiastical Parish:
Chesterton St Lukes

Civil Parish:
Chesterton Municipal Borough:
Address:
15, Victoria Road, Chesterton County:
Cambridgeshire

Chris :)

(not seeing Martha and Charles Shaw 1881)...