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For reference (save searching the posts), can you put the marriage dates up again for Frederick and any other details on the certificates please.

sorry Wendy, I forgot you are in Austrailia, it is mid afternoon in England. Sleep well

OK, sorry, but I have to get to bed, early start.
Thankyou for your wonderful help and interesting ideas. I'm enjoying what I thought was going to be boundless dead ends.
Nite :-D

"What about this one....there is a Sarah???? right age to have Frederick in 1800. Great Ellingham is only about 10 miles from East Dereham. Sarah Smith could have been Frederick's grandmother????

name: Susanna Smith
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 23 Jan 1780
baptism/christening place: GREAT ELLINGHAM,NORFOLK,ENGLAND
father's name: John Smith
mother's name: Sarah
indexing project (batch) number: P01171-1
system origin: England-ODM
source film number: 0994074 IT 19"

Looks very nice Dee!

I don't know where i have posted it, or even if i did at all, but there is a Susannah Smith, daughter of Bartholomew Smith and Mary (nee Trollop), East Dereham 1781. Siblings Ann, Mary, John and John

I was unable to find out anything more for Samuel Leake, East Dereham 1779

Frederic's first wife was Elizabeth Rigby

Oh, I see. He could have been a friend.
I have searchedmy Norfolk marriages CD (1801-1837) and can confirm that there were no marriages between either a Sarah Smith & Robert Chambers or Robert Smith & Sarah Chambers - at least not in Norfolk! Perhaps Robert Chambers was related to Frederick's wife? - another possiblility.

Robert Chambers was the 2nd witness at Frederic's first marriage.

Found this baptism of a possible daughter - is this what you are looking for?

name: Sarah Chambers
gender: Female
baptism/christening date: 18 Sep 1817
baptism/christening place: Elsing, Norfolk, England
father's name: Robert Chambers
mother's name: Sarah
indexing project (batch) number: I02274-3
system origin: England-EASy
source film number: 1278797


Am I missing something? Where does Chambers come into the family?

Wendy

what year are we looking for a sarah/robert marriage please?

For information:
1851
Name: Samuel Baxter
Age: 37
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1814
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Hannah Baxter
Gender: M (Male)
Where born: Tasburgh, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Tasburgh
Ecclesiastical parish: Depwade
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Disability:

View image

Registration district: Depwade
Sub-registration district: Harleston
ED, institution, or vessel: 8
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 8
Piece: 1821
Folio: 639
Page Number: 3
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Baxter 37
Hannah Baxter 24
Sarah Baxter 1

View
Original
Record

View original image

Just had a thought...can we find a daughter of Sarah Smith marrying a Robert Chambers?
Or....Sarah Chambers that Married a Smith, with a brother called Robert?
I have Robert and Susannah Smith living at 12 Queen st 1851 census

previous death not her (maybe Robert's susannah?)

1861
Name: Samuel Baxter
Age: 47
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1814
Relation: Head
Mother's name: Susanah Baxter
Gender: Male
Where born: Tasburgh, Norfolk, England

Civil parish: Tasburgh
County/Island: Norfolk
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

View image

Registration district: Depwade
Sub-registration district: Stratton
ED, institution, or vessel: 12
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 55
Piece: 1233
Folio: 158
Page Number: 9
Household Members:
Name Age
Samuel Baxter 47
Sarah Baxter 11
Samuel Baxter 9
George Wm Baxter 7
Mary Baxter 5
Alfred B Baxter 3
Susanah Baxter 84
Mary Ann Nuby 47Name: Samuel Baxter
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818
Date of Registration: Jul-Aug-Sep 1866
Age at Death: 48
Registration district: Poplar
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1c
Page: 837 (click to see others on page)

Notice, Susan has become Susannah again and that Samuel has named his daughter Sarah (perhaps after his grandmother?)

The Leake connection is Frederic's middle name. Frederic Leake Smith.
Some debate over wether it is his father's name, Susannah's maiden name, Susannah's mother's maiden name etc .

Can't find Susan in 1851 as Samuel is head of the household now. However, I have found this Death:-


Name: Susannah Baxter
Date of Registration: Apr-May-Jun 1845
Registration district: Bethnal Green
Inferred County: London
Volume: 2
Page: 6 (click to see others on page)

Could this be a coincidence with your other links to Bethnal Green?

ps
East Dereham is again about 10 miles from Tasburgh - possible?

OK, so what about this possibility....
There is a marriage of a Susan Smith to a john Baxter 1/10/1817 East Dereham.
1841: Susan Baxter B1781 age 60 Char woman Head of household with
Samuel Baxter 25 (1816) Butcher
Elijah Baxter 22 Ag Lab
George Baxter 20 Ag Lab
at Tasburgh, Norfolk (5miles from Gt Ellingham and 5 miles from Bungay)

Samuel's age ties in with the Susan/John Baxter marriage in 1817
You mention a Samuel Leake - could have had him before the marriage?
John not with them in 1841

PS, also if you weren't aware, I live in Australia, so have absolutely no idea about hamlets/towns/parishes and their distances, so th einfo is a great help :-D

Back...
Wow, OK, I need to sort this out in my mind so there is some order and direction.
It is a possibility that Robert Smith (Ely Pl) had a sister called Susannah, who was the mother of Frederic.
Their Mother was Sarah Smith.
Where is Susannah?
She died? Find her death
She married? Find her marriage.
Alive and single? Census?
Confirm Sarah Smith was the mother and the witness..how? "IF" this info is correct, then we know Sarah was alive in 1820. "IF" Susannah is her daughter, born C1780, then Sarah could have been born C1760ish, soooo...would she still be alive to find in the 1841 census?? Not likely, but needs to be eliminated. Next would be a death record.
Can we bring the Leake name into it somehow with Sarah?
I don't know if you read the post I made about 1 likely candidate in Samuel Leake from East Dereham.

Given that Robert gives his place of birth as Bungay, Bungay is about 10 miles from Great Yarmouth and Loddon, so the two marriage I mentioned previously are possibly them, however, I would lean towards the Great Yarmouth oneas her name is Susannah (Wince) and not Susan as is the Loddon one.

This is the way I am thinking......
Robert born in Whitwell 1777, Susanna in Gt Ellingham 1780, perhaps robert met "his" Susannah whilst working in Bungay and the pair married in Great yarmouth. All speculation. But worth the thought.

How exciting!
I'll be back soon to digest the info.

Whitwell and Great Ellingham are only about 10 miles apart, with East Dereham between them.
Robert Smith bapt 24/11/1777 Whitwell Father John Mother Sarah
Susanna Smith bapt 23/1/1780 Great Ellingham Father John Mother Sarah
Susanna right age to have had Frederick
Robert right age as 1841 census suggests