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1861 census - household transcription
Person: MCKNIGHT, Robert
Institution: Royal Artillery Barracks,
MCKNIGHT, Robert Soldier Unmarried M 26 1835 Shoeing Smith Arty
Ireland


England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Robert Mcknight



Name:Robert Mcknight
Estimated Birth Year:abt 1833
Date of Registration:Jul-Aug-Sep 1878
Age at Death:45
Registration district:Woolwich
Inferred County:London
Volume:1d



Jane's father

Hi LK, thanks for the website address of 1 Rush Grove Street. So was it demolished? I wonder if there might have tenant records?

Good question about Mary Gertrude Allen Rutherford (B. 1906). I did try to find her in 1911, too. She was alive until her death in 1976.

I am having difficulty Finding Gertrude Rutherford Allen 1906 in the 1911 census.I am still trying to tie these in together for you

London, England, Marriages and Banns, 1754-1921
about William George Carl Sibthorpe Name: William George Carl Sibthorpe
Age: 20
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1867
Spouse Name: Martha Sherlock
Spouse Age: 20
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 21 Nov 1887
Parish: St Michael and All Angels, Woolwich
County: Kent
Borough: Greenwich
Father Name: Isaac Sibthorpe
Spouse Father Name: Henry Sherlock

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about William George Sibthorpe Name: William George Sibthorpe
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1901
Baptism Date: 2 Aug 1901
Father's name: Charles Isaac Sibthorpe
Mother's name: Rebecca Sibthorpe
Parish or Poor Law Union: Woolwich St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Greenwich

3 may cottages Abbywood
laborer RA'l

posting for my musing

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Alfred Sibthorpe Name: Alfred Sibthorpe
Record Type: Baptism
Birth Date 24 febt 1880
Baptism Date: 1 Jun 1880
Father's name: Isaac Sibthorpe
Mother's name: Fanny Sibthorpe
Parish or Poor Law Union: Woolwich St Mary Magdalene
Borough: Greenwich
10 Artillery Place

England & Wales, FreeBMD Death Index: 1837-1915
about Alfred Sibthorpe Name: Alfred Sibthorpe
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1880
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1880
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: Woolwich
Inferred County: London
Volume: 1d
Page: 621 (click to see others on page)

I think it is all flats now except for Rush Grove House


http://www.einpay.com/map/rushgrove-house,-rushgrove-street,-woolwich,-se18-5dd.htm

Madmeg

The Rook link was established in the deleted thread The family corresponds perfectly and as Steven says he now has the certificate.
I have spent all day on this and still have not found all the answers.

It was Steven who spotted the seemingly unrelated births and baptisms.

My head is spinning now.

Steven could you post up about the payment from MK Allan in detail. I think we found something on that before.
Also go and have another look at everything you have and see if you can find anything matching names and addresses.

Madmeg

The Rook link was established in the deleted thread The family corresponds perfectly and as Steven says he now has the certificate.
I have spent all day on this and still have not found all the answers.

It was Steven who spotted the seemingly unrelated births and baptisms.

My head is spinning now.

Steven could you post up about the payment from MK Allan in detail. I think we found something on that before.
Also go and have another look at everything you have and see if you can find anything matching names and addresses.

LK, I agreed with you that Jane is not married. I just looked for John Morris McKnight’s marriage in FreeBMD and nothing to come. It should be easy to “find John Morris McKnight” I think the baptism in Woolwich seems that Jane should be a single and used her surname McKnight, not to John jnr’s father. Maybe Margaret Allen could be a single and John would be Gertrude’s father.

I wish I could visit 1 Rush Grove Street to see what inside looks like.

I read your threads again and it is very interesed about Cole, Martin and McKnight. I will look for them to see if anything related to Allen.

LK, that’s amazing of you to find it. I never see like that before. I cant remember your name before. Many thanks for your help. I see about 1 Rush Grove Road. That’s interested. I hope John might be worked for the Army. Perhaps I should look for his employee records from the Arsenal? That’s interested about John Allan in the 1881 census. Where was his wife?!

I am surprised about Robert McKnight’s baptism in 1893 where they lived 27 Dicey Street. I will try my best to find out if they are related to Allen. Thanks again for finding this baptism record. It looks like nearly found a clue one day, I hope.

Yes, you are right that Gertrude had first two children, Harry and Mary. So Ellen (I know that it was from Ancestry) should be Allen that I have a copy of her birth certificate.

James’ wife Mary Ann Rutherford died in 1909 at Woolwich.

Kath: Yes, I have seen it, however she died in Dec 1889 aged 1 year old at Hendon. Thanks.

Births Dec 1888
ALLEN Gertrude Hendon
3a 197

Deaths Dec 1889
Allen Gertrude 1 Hendon
3a 100

Dee, yes I agree with you that I should not delete some of my threads. I understand from now. Sorry about that.

However, I could not find a marriage of James Rutherford and his wife Mary Ann. I am still looking for their marriage. Few years ago, I ordered a marriage certificate of James Rutherford and Mary Armstrong in Carlisle with James’ father Robert and it was unsuccessful.

Colin: thanks for finding it in Google.

Madmeg, I undertand that it seems confused. I am try to explain correctly. (I am profoundly deaf).

I think James Rutherford might be in 1881 census where he was born in Scotland. It is very close to Cumberland. He worked as a general porter at Stockwell Fever Hospital at Lambeth.

Name: James Rutherford
Age: 29
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Servant
Gender: Male
Where born: Scotland
Civil parish: Lambeth
County/Island: London
Country: England
Street Address: "Fever Hospital" Stockwell
Education:
Employment status: View image
Occupation: General Porter (Hosp Serv)
Registration district: Lambeth
Sub-registration district: Brixton
ED, institution, or vessel: 4
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 613
Folio: 96
Page Number: 19

Yes, I have a copy of James Rutherford’s birth certificate (I bought it in 2005) to appear that his mother’s maiden was Rook. Perhaps James and his family hide away from the law or something like that. I have Gertrude’s death certificate to appear that it was her father’s name was unknown Rooke.

1911 census - household transcription
Person: RUTHERFORD, James
Institution: The Workhouse, THE WORKHOUSE
RUTHERFORD, James Inmate Widower M 61 1850 Tinsmith Cumberland Carlisle

I am having difficulty with this. So Gertrude Allen b 21/12/188, adopted by the Rutherfords, and baptised in the name of Gertrude Rutherford Allen, is the Gertrude Rook in 1901, with parents James and Mary, who were previously called James and Mary Rutherford. They are the adoptive parents of Gertrude.

James's mother was a Jane Rook, so we are told. Do we have any evidence of that?

It will take me some time to get me 'ed round the rest of it. Off to eat a Chinese.

Confused Meg.

So am I being a bit thick? Why would James Rutherford, with wife Mary and daughter Gertrude suddenly call themselves Rook in 1901?

They weren't living with any Rooks:

1901 England Census
about James Rook Name: James Rook
Age: 49
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1852
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Rook
Gender: Male
Where born: Carlisle, Cumberland, England

Civil parish: Woolwich
Ecclesiastical parish: St John the Evangelist
County/Island: London
Country: England
Registration district: Woolwich
Sub-registration district: Woolwich
ED, institution, or vessel: 3
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 327
Piece: 564
Folio: 69
Page Number: 51
Household Members: Name Age
James Rook 49
Mary Rook 48
Gertrude Rook 12

Well done LadyKira, much to absorb there.

Wish Karen would come back. She hasn't opened my PMs.

I wonder about this one


London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Mary Gertrude Ellen Rutherford
Name:Mary Gertrude Ellen Rutherford
Record Type:Baptism
Estimated Birth Date:abt 1906
Baptism Date:4 Dec 1906
Mother's name:Gertrude Rutherford
Parish or Poor Law Union:Woolwich St Mary Magdalene
Borough:Greenwic39 Westdale Road

1911 census - household transcription
Person: RUTHERFORD, Harry Allen
Address: 24 Coronation Road Ipswich
COOK, Annie Susan Head Single F 44 1867 Care Of Children From Dc Bard Copdock Suffolk
HULL, Clara Amy Alice Boarder F 10 1901 School North Woolich Essex
ANGROVE, Elizabeth Annie Boarder F 10 1901 School Redruth Cornwall
RUTHERFORD, Harry Allen Boarder M 5 1906 Woolich Kent
WALKINSON, Minnie Boarder F 5 1906 Not Known

Looking at the original it is care of children from Dr Barnardo's and it has Dr Barnardo's crossed and booarder inserted over each of the children

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Harry Allen Rutherford
Name: Harry Allen Rutherford
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1905
Baptism Date: 18 Jul 1905
Mother's name: Gertrude Allen Rutherford
Parish or Poor Law Union:Woolwich St John
Borough:Greenwich
Address: 27, Dicey Street, Woolwich


England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Harry Allen Rutherford
Name:Harry Allen Rutherford
Birth Date:29 May 1905
Date of Registration:Apr-May-Jun 1982
Age at Death:77
Registration district:Bury St Edmunds
Inferred County:Suffolk
Volume:10
Page:2164

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Harry Allen Rutherford
Name: Harry Allen Rutherford
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1905
Baptism Date: 18 Jul 1905
Mother's name: Gertrude Allen Rutherford
Parish or Poor Law Union:Woolwich St John
Borough:Greenwich
Address: 27, Dicey Street, Woolwich


England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Harry Allen Rutherford
Name:Harry Allen Rutherford
Birth Date:29 May 1905
Date of Registration:Apr-May-Jun 1982
Age at Death:77
Registration district:Bury St Edmunds
Inferred County:Suffolk
Volume:10
Page:2164

This cannot be a coincidence

Jane Knight's second child has a baptism address the same as Gertrude's address in 1901

London, England, Births and Baptisms, 1813-1906
about Robert Henry Mcknight
Name:Robert Henry Mcknight
Record Type:Baptism
Estimated Birth Date:abt 1893
Baptism Date:22 Jan 1893
Mother's name:Jane Mcknight
Parish or Poor Law Union:Woolwich St Mary Magdalene
Borough:Greenwich
27 Dicey Street Woolwich

1901 census - household transcription
Person: LOOK, Gertrude
Address: 27, Dicey Street, Woolwich
LOOK, James Head Married M 49 1852 Tinsmith Carlisle Cumberland
LOOK, Mary Wife Married F 48 1853 Walworth London
LOOK, Gertrude Daughter Single F 12 1889 Woolwich London

1911 Address: 21 Harden Street Woolwich
PEARCE, Edward Head Married M 62 1849 General Labourer Woolwich
PEARCE, Ellen Wife Married
16 years F 52 1859 Portsmouth
PEARCE, Mary Daughter Single F 12 1899 School Woolwich
PEARCE, Edward Son Single M 15 1896 Messenger Boy Woolwich
RUTHERFORD, Gertrude Visitor Single F 22 1889 Laundress Not Known