Find Ancestors

well .......... I don't see another birth for a Francis or Frank Wing around 1861ish ..........

if that is Frank he went by his middle name, maybe William James did too?


do we know why Frances / Fanny is called Sarah in 1861 ??


Marriages Jun 1859 ??
Dentor Eliza E Grinstead 2b 168
Isted Frances E Grinstead 2b 168
Longley George E. Grinstead 2b 168
Wing Francis E Grinstead 2B 168

Births Mar 1838 ??
ISTED Sarah Uckfield 7 454


I am going off on a wide tangent :-)


1851

Name: Thomas Tsted
[Frances Isted] >>>> two people have added the same 'alternate info' at Ancestry
[Frances Isted]
Age: 13
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1838
Relation: Daughter
Father's name: William Tsted
Mother's name: Sarah Tsted
Where born: East Grinstead, Sussex, England

Civil parish: East Grinstead
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Registration district: East Grinstead

Household Members:
Name Age
William Tsted 44
Sarah Tsted 43
Thomas Tsted 13
Charles Tsted 8
Harriette Tsted 4
Sarah Tsted 2
Eliza Tsted 1 MO

Ummm they would'nt baptise two living children with the name William surely?

Unless it was a mistake by the vicar?

jax

Have you looked at what I had already found on page one ? Would'nt the 1861 be too early?

oops sorry did'nt notice Frank (must go to specsavers)

jax

for good measure this looks like Frank' s baptism ?

Name: William Francis Wing
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1861
Baptism Date: 24 Nov 1861
Father's name: Francis William Wing
Mother's name: Sarah Wing
Parish or Poor Law Union: Southwark St Saviour
Borough: Southwark

oh oops I think I was looking at the 1865 Marylebone birth when I said it was easy to find at freebmd but yes there is also the 1866 one and then yes I guess the one I was tracing was the one born in Shoreditch ...


Births Jun 1864
WING William James Shoreditch 1c 103
Births Mar 1865
Wing William James Marylebone 1a 559
Births Dec 1866
Wing William J Marylebone 1a 546

so he is the wrong one

here is the right one

Name: William James Wing
Record Type: Baptism
Estimated Birth Date: abt 1867
Baptism Date: 6 Oct 1867
Father's name: Francis Wing
Mother's name: Faney Wing
Parish or Poor Law Union: St Marylebone St Mark
Borough: Westminster

baptised late it seems

There are two william J wing's one in 1864 the other in 1866 so I would think it is the 1866 one that we are tying to find

jax

Name: William James Wing.........Brass Finisher
Age: 22
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1864
Spouse Name: Louisa Ann Lucas
Spouse Age: 22
Record Type: Marriage
Marriage Date: 30 May 1886
Parish: St John the Baptist, Hoxton
County: Middlesex
Borough: Hackney
Father Name: James Wing........Boot maker
Spouse Father Name: John George Lucas......Boot maker

There is a St leonards on sea thats in Sussex near Hastings

jax

and now that I look at the 1891 census page again

I see that it says 'St leonards' and someone has added after that 'Sussex'

so surely it was meant to be St Leonards Shoreditch

WING, William James Head Married M 46 1865 Engineer Boiler Fittings London Shoreditch
WING, Louisa Ann Wife Married
24 years F 47 1864 London City
WING, Edward Cecil Son Single M 19 1892 Clerk Color Printers London Camberwell
WING, Beatrice Eva Daughter Single F 17 1894 London Camberwell
WING, Frederick Charles Son M 14 1897 Assistant Tailors London Walworth
WING, Florence Maud Daughter F 13 1898 School London Walworth
WING, George Robert Son M 10 1901 School London Walworth
WING, Ethel Dorothy Daughter F 4 1907 Essex East Ham

Registration District:
West Ham Sub District:
South East Ham Enumeration District:
7 Parish:
East Ham

Address:
8 Stamford Road East Ham County:
Essex

did you look at freebmd for a marriage or death for William James Wing ?

could this be the marriage of William James Wing born abt 1867 ?


Marriages Jun 1886

Johnson Thomas Alfred Shoreditch 1c 220
LUCAS Louisa Ann Shoreditch 1c 220
WICHETT Elizabeth Catherine Shoreditch 1c 220
WICKETT Elizabeth Catherine Shoreditch 1c 220
WING William James Shoreditch 1c 220


we never have to have 'abt' birth dates for people with less common names ... if you search at freebmd for the birth of Wing William James and I tried 1865 to 1868 you will find what I should think is his birth


No it looks like that is not his marriage

1891 census

Name: William James Wing
Age: 36
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1855
Relation: Head
Gender: Male
Where born: St Leonards, Sussex, England

Civil parish: Camberwell
Town: Peckham
County/Island: London
Country: England

Household Members:
Name Age
William James Wing 36
Louisa Ann Wing 27
William James John Wing 3
Louisa Ann Wing 5


the place of birth isn't right

......... oh but I think his age is really 26 there maybe so that would be the right age for him ......... that William is a brass finisher ........


could this be him in 1911

WING WILLIAM JAMES M 1865 46 West Ham Essex

the same wife Louisa Ann born 1864 and numerous children

Edward Cecil 1892
Beatrice Eva 1894
Frederick Charles 1897
Florence Maud 1898
George Robert 1901
Ethel Dorothy 1907

very good of them to give their middle names all !

As I noticed yesterday the were others that were missing from freebmd this is another on the same page

Name: Rosina Elizabeth Oakes
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1914
Date of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec 1914
Age at Death: 0
Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Inferred County: London, Surrey
Volume: 1d
Page: 1&f5=1d">171 (click to see others on page)


only listing from freebmd is this one

Deaths Mar 1892 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Oakes Rosina Elizabeth 0 St. Olave 1d 171

so something went wrong somewhere and maybe the 1902 is him with someone not knowing his age?

Find My Past do not have a death in 1914 for Francis Wing.
But they do have the 1902 death with the same refs as given by Ancestry for the 1914..
So as Chrissiex says it would seem that the 1914 death does not really exist.


Name: WING, Francis
Registration District: Help St. Olave Southwark
County: London
Year of Registration: 1902
Quarter of Registration: Jan-Feb-Mar
Age at death: 74
Volume No: 1D
Page No: 171

I thik as do others that his age was probably only guessed at by the informant so this could well be "your"Francis Wings death.

The GRO have emailed me in the past that they cannot find a certificate from the references I had given and so copied and pasted it from ancestry and sent that to them asking for an explanation.

I received an apology and a certificate.

this would be possible for 1881


Name: T. Wing
... it could be an F like in Finsbury on that page but without the crossed part
Age: 44 ... it really says 41 I think
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1837
Relation: Inmate
Gender: Male

Civil parish: Hamlet
County/Island: London
Country: England

Street Address: "Bethnall House Lunatic Asylum"
Condition as to marriage: Married

Occupation: Labourer

Registration district: Mile End Old Town
Sub-registration district: Mile End Old Town, Eastern



this case is a possibility though an unhappy one

just putting the 1861 census here to look at it


Name: Frances Wing
Age: 21
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Sarah Wing
Gender: Male
Where born: Horsted Keynes, Sussex, England

Civil parish: East Grinstead
Ecclesiastical parish: Forest Row
County/Island: Sussex
Country: England

Registration district: East Grinstead
Sub-registration district: East Grinstead

Frances Wing 21
Sarah Wing 24
Frank Wing 1
Robert Isard 20
William Holmes 51
Alexander Stevenson 47
Jane Stevenson 14
George Stevenson 10


he is a hay binder

is the person who was a florist decorator a stepfather ( informal ) maybe ?

could he have been in an institution long term ..... in that case he might be in the 1891 census by his initials only ......

there is one in a 'lunatic asylum' who is about the right age if I am following ?



Name: F W
Age: 51
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1840
Relation: Patient
Gender: Male
Where born: London, England

Civil parish: Norwood
Ecclesiastical parish: Norwood
County/Island: Middlesex
Country: England

Registration district: Uxbridge
Sub-registration district: Hayes
ED, institution, or vessel: London County Asylum

he is single

in 1901 this seems to be the Francis who died in 1902

Name: Francis Wing
Age: 74
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1827
Relation: Patient
Gender: Male
Where born: Ec, Upper Thomas St, London, England

Civil parish: Rotherhithe
Ecclesiastical parish: All Saints
County/Island: London
Country: England

Registration district: St Olave Southwark
Sub-registration district: Rotherhithe
ED, institution, or vessel: Saint Olaves Union Infirmary with Saint Olaves Union Casual Wards

he is married with nil occupation

.... I wonder whether the hospital just didn' t know his true age ...

did you notice that the registration info for the 1902 death at freebmd is the same as for the 1914 death at Ancestry ?

Deaths Mar 1902
Wing Francis 74 St. Olave >> 1d >>171

also the age at death is the same


I looked at Ancestry for a surname starting with 'win' who died in jan-feb-mar 1902

and then looked at the image

and yes

Francis Wing 74 St Olave 1d 171

is shown on the image for jan-feb-jar 1902

so even though the Francis who died in 1914 looked like a perfect match it looks like that death was just a phantom !

at Ancestry I looked for another Wing died oct-nov-dec 1914 and there is an image for Charles Wing and several others ...............

............ on the image it' s true there is no Francis.

Something must have gone wrong with freebmd' s transcription somehow though it is odd because I think when they transcribe, the quarter and year are maybe automatic because they are transcribing from the image for that quarter and year .......


........ strangely when you do an exact search at Ancestry for Wing died oct-nov-dec 1914 Francis is not in the list .......... ??

when you click on the page number to 'see others on page' several others do not have image links either ... 2 Daniels in Newington and 1 Hinds and 1 Oakes in St Olave Southwark .....

I would contact freebmd and ask them about it. Ancestry's information must have come from there but it has been changed at freebmd .....