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Also, I have been emailed a copy of Bertha's and John's marriage certificate and Bertha's father was called Francis Greaves Pullan. Must trace this back further to see if that double barrel name continues.

Night all

Debi.x

Mmm...somebody else mentioned that. Think I need to dig them all up for DNA tests or have a time machine!

Debi.x

Remember it's also possible that Bertha was born in the workhouse infirmary, and Sarah wasn't actually living there.

You've found Francis as a patient in 1871 so that clears up a bit of it!

By the way, if he died of a brain tumour in early 1872 ... well, I was going to say he wasn't likely in hospital when Bertha was conceived in mid-late 1870, given the usual progress of brain tumours, but he was in hospital nearly a year that we know of, census 1871-early 1872, so one never knows.

I found the below information on another tree, so I copied and pasted it here for interest...


Bertha was born in June 1871 in the Union Workhouse in Stanley Wakefield. It was a mystery to me why her family had to resort to living in the workhouse as ten prior to this they are living in Leeds and her father Francis John Greaves is working as a whitesmith. Ten years after the birth of Bertha her  mother Sarah Jane Harrold Greaves is recorded as the head of the family living back in Leeds. I later discovered the death cerifitcate for Francis John Greaves. He died age 33 in Infirmary in Leeds from a Brain Tumor this was in the first quarter of 1872. I can only assume the family had to go into the workhouse due to Francis's illhealth. In 1871 April of that year when the Census was taken Sarah Jane is recorded living with her young son called William age 3. They are living alone again perhaps Francis Greaves her husband was in the hospital and she had no choice in June that year to go to the workhouse to give birth to Bertha.
--

Hi all,

Well Janey, it doesn't really matter who found who first - It is 'teamwork' which brought about this excellent result :D

I am SO pleased for you Debi and yes, do please let us know how your meeting goes. Also, how the name 'Pullen' came into it all, I am really curious about that and I am sure 'our janey', and the others are too !

Best of luck,

Dea x

Ha ha ha!

I know, you are fantastic too Janey!

BUT she got me a photo and I was VERY excited about that.

Don't think I have any rich people in my family, but hey hoe, who knows!

Mucho lurve

Debi x

Well how excellent all that is. And how terrific that you are going to be able to meet her. (All my newfound cousins of various degrees live in different countries, mostly on different continents, from me.)

Your relationship to her -- here's a good chart to bookmark:

http://genealogy.about.com/library/nrelationshipchart.htm

You have the same gr-grmother, so your relationship as gr-grchild to gr-grchild is second cousin (a real second cousin, not what people often mistakenly call a second cousin).

Your grandparents were siblings, which makes it sound a little more connected.

Bertha was the grandmother of your respective parents. So your parents were/are first cousins.

Amazing to think that your parents don't know their first cousins, isn't it?!

We had a family reunion in 1999. My mum and her cousin, and the cousin's kid and me, organized it at his rural home. Descendants of 5 siblings who came to Canada as children in 1909 with their parents, my gr-grparents. As people were arriving, my 12-yr-old nephew pointed at a car pulling up and said: What's SHE doing here? "She" was a girl in his class in Toronto whom he couldn't stand, nor she him. Neither had a clue that they were related, let alone had the same grx2 grandparents. This failed to alter their feelings about each other. ;)


But hey now, c'mon, the fantastic Dea ... I found the b'dy ancestors! Dea was off on a frolic with those rich people ... XP

;)

Hello Dea!

My youngest is in bed now and I've all my Saturday cleaning and washing done, so its laptop time now!

Thanks again for all your time and hard work, I'm extremely thankful. I got on that site you mentioned and was able to view the tree. It was really good and it had other photos...one of my dad, around four screaming his head off!!!

I also emailed the tree owner and she got back to me. Bertha is also her great grandmother. Her grandmother and mine were sisters, not quite sure what that makes us?

Anyway we are meeting up in a couple of weeks to share photos and memories. I cant wait!

She is an illustrator of childrens books, which is quite exciting too.

She has also got back further than me, so I have lots of reading/writing up to do.

I will keep you posted of events and let you know how our meeting turns out, since its down to you that we are in contact.

ROSE.
Sorry, I didnt read your post correctly last night, now I can see that you meant TWO Stanleys. Interesting.

Thanks to all, especially the fantastic DEA!

Best wishes

Debi

OOhhh - I just had an exciting thought.................... ;-)

There is that site which is a spin-off from Ancestry - when you have a tree on Ancestry, all the details are automatically transferred to it.

I am sure it is a free site - you have to join but I don't think you pay anything.

I have checked and the tree IS on there so you should be able to see for yourself.

Address is:

http://www.mundia.com/gb

Give it a try and let me know how you get on.

To find the tree, I put in the name of Sarah Harrold born 1841 and several came up.

I then chose the one with 191 people in it which, I think, was the top one.

This brought me into the tree of kitwilliamson. - It was a bit awkward to navigate but the pictures are there.

The other trees may also be of interest to you.

Dea x

OOhh - a further thought !!

If you have a 'facebook profile', which I think you said you had?? - You don't have to join first but can just click at the top on 'sign-in' and enter your log-in details from there?

Dea x

Hello again,

Well, I am 'fed and watered' so 'almost' awake now :D

I have sent a message to the 'tree-owner' on Ancestry and given her your e-mail address.

It says on her profile that she has been a member since 2006, but she hasn't been on in the past 6 months so we will have to keep our fingers crosses.

Let me know if and when she contacts you.

Dea x

Good morning Debi,

I will send that message to the tree-owner on Ancestry in a little while when I am properly awake.

In the meantime, I think I mentioned last night that I had found that Bertha had a brother?

Well, this is him with mother Sarah on 1871 census:

1871 England Census
about Sarah Greaves Name: Sarah Greaves
Age: 32
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1839
Relation: Head
Gender: Female
Where born: Leeds, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Leeds
Ecclesiastical parish: St Saviour
Town: Leeds
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Leeds
Sub-registration district: South East Leeds
ED, institution, or vessel: 44
Household schedule number: 29
Piece: 4550
Folio: 57
Page Number: 5
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Greaves 32 ... married
William Greaves 3

at 23 High Markland Street.

Source Citation: Class: RG10; Piece: 4550; Folio: 57; Page: 5; GSU roll: 847135.


Further proof of his existance in 1881 when he is with his grandmother:

1881 England Census
about Ann Harrold Name: Ann Harrold
Age: 63
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1818
Relation: Widow
Gender: Female
Where born: Rawdon, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Holbeck
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 6 Saw Mill St
Condition as to marriage: Windower (Widower)

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Housekeeper (Dom)

Registration district: Holbeck
Sub-registration district: Holbeck
ED, institution, or vessel: 11
Neighbors: View others on page
Piece: 4496
Folio: 43
Page Number: 30
Household Members: Name Age
Ann Harrold 63
William Greaves 13 Grandson - b. Leeds. - Mill Hand - flax.

NB - Also on here but not transcribed:
Arthur Harrold - unm. Head. Moulder (Iron) b. Leeds. (Probably Ann's son?)

Source Citation: Class: RG11; Piece: 4496; Folio: 43; Page: 30; GSU roll: 1342077.

Dea x

Be nice to find Sarah in 1871. It does seem odd there was only one child for the 12 odd years she was married and Betha happened to be born when Francis was sick. Perhaps Mr Pullan was really her father?

Rose

Nice one Rose,a grey furry thing that runs up trees then.....
Can we launch the rocket at JC please?I am in a bad mood:)
Fan....or FBG.

Edits...To check for deaths in WW1 and WW2 have you been here Debi?

www.cwgc.org


I will stop annoying you lot now.....Night

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Debi,

I'm suggesting they had 2 children called Stanley. The first one died.

According to the 1911 census, one child had not survived.

Rose

FannyByGaslight ,

It's a squirrel with a rocket launcher.

Rose

No, Stanley was alive until the 80's and yes I knew about Edna, but only recently.

I dont think the lads, Ernest, Allan and John made it into adulthood, as there was never any mention of them. I only found out about them after joining Genes, maybe died in the war???

Debi. x

Rose....Is that a chipmunk or a grey furry thing that runs up trees with half a walnut shell on its bonce blowing down a bamboo shoot in your pic over there??

Given the spacing of the births, I bet this is the child who died:

Births Sep 1902
Beckett Stanley Leeds 9b 424

Deaths Sep 1904
BECKETT Stanley 2 Leeds 9b 358

Rose

Looks like there was another child after Alice:

Births Sep 1913
Beckett Edna Greaves Leeds 9b 785

Rose

Hi Janey

I must get my file up to date first before I move on, but I'm sure there will be!

I briefly went crazy when I first started my tree at the beginning of April and flitted from person to person, like something possessed, then I settled down to some proper recording. There were family members I got stuck on and left, but I'm slowly getting through them, so I WILL be back soon requesting your help!

This is a fantastic hobby!!!

BIG THANKS

Debi