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Hi rootgatherer ! These are all good questions. Problem is that the 1827 marriage record is basically a one-liner in an Old Parish Register. All it says is "William Hynd, Weaver, & May, daughter of Robert Ford, Tailor, both in this Parish." None of the family details that were required in later certification, so makes it much more difficult to trace back when researching one's family tree. Doesn't say whether father was deceased, which I think we can take to mean that he wasn't deceased at that time. Don't know if that helps at al ? Thanks for your input. Best regards, Paul

Hi Janey ! I can't find a birth or christening record for John Hynd. The Hynd family grave is in the Eastern Cemetery, 2 separate lairs containing no less than 12 members of the Hynd family from 1870 (Marjory / May Ford) through to 1960, 90 years later. No William there, but he would have died before the Eastern opened in the 1860's, so would most likely have been buried in the Old Howff, where I found William Hynd died 1834. All Hynds buried in the Old Howff listed in http://www.fdca.org.uk/HowffInitHickey-Hyssop.pdf . Our interpretation of the 1851 census assumes that Mary is synonymous with Marjory / Marjorie / May, which does seem to work, given William Junior. Cheers, Paul

Hi,There is only that 1 Bapts for a William Hynd and Margaret Hunter.

Ellen

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ELIZABETH HYND Pedigree
Female


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Event(s):
Birth: 10 JUN 1827

Christening: 21 JUL 1827 Dundee, Angus, Scotland

Death:
Burial:


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Parents:
Father: WILLIAM HYND Family
Mother: MAY FORD


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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.


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Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C112828 1820 - 1835

Thanks, Ellen. This may be a sister of Elisabeth / Betty Ford / Foord, will check it out. Given the way people lived in those days, in mixed families, I think maybe the only way to solve conundrums is to go back and forward with different family groupings and try to check the census for relationships, eg son, niece, etc and try to see the patterns. Sometimes groups lived at addresses close to each other, ie in the same area. Thanks again, Paul

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WILLIAM HYND Pedigree
Male Family


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Event(s):
Birth:
Christening:
Death:
Burial:


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Marriages:
Spouse: MARGARET HUNTER Family
Marriage: 20 JUL 1818 Lundie And Fowlis, Angus, Scotland



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Messages:
Extracted marriage record for locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the marriage date.


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Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

M113062 1677 - 1820 0991897 Film 6903002 Film


Sheet: 00

1Set of Banns

Hi Ellen. That's a possibility, will check it out. Thanks, Paul

Could William have been married before
WILLIAM HYND Pedigree
Male


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Event(s):
Birth: JUN 1821

Christening: JUN 1821 Dundee, Angus, Scotland

Death:
Burial:


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Parents:
Father: WILLM. HYND Family
Mother: MARGT. HUNTER


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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.


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Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C112828 1820 - 1835 0993402 Film 6900646 Film


Sheet: 00

6 Jun 1827 marriage record for William gives his occupation as Weaver, which is why I think that the William Hynd, Weaver, Hilltown who was laid to rest in the Old Howff in 1834 is possibly our man. This would explain why no William Hynd of this era in 1841 or later censuses. This interpretation raises questions about William Hynd Junior's father, as he was born around 1840, after the other William's death. Hence my theory that his mother, Marjory / May Ford may have had William Junior illegitimately and used her dead husband's name in official records in order to cover it up. I don't like to think this way, but it is a version that covers the facts.

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ROBERT LAMONT Pedigree
Male


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Event(s):
Birth: 14 OCT 1826

Christening: 26 NOV 1826 Dundee, Angus, Scotland

Death:
Burial:


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Parents:
Father: JOHN LAMONT Family
Mother: JANET FORD


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Messages:
Extracted birth or christening record for the locality listed in the record. The source records are usually arranged chronologically by the birth or christening date.


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Source Information:
Batch No.: Dates: Source Call No.: Type: Printout Call No.: Type:

C112828 1820 - 1835 0993402 Film 6900646 Film


Sheet: 00

Not getting any of the Lamonds on IGI.

Ellen

Hi Ellen ! Yes. James Hynd is my great grandfather, born on 8 Dec 1830, christened on 10 Feb 1831. David Hynd is my great grand-uncle, born on 30 Nov 1828, christened on 10 Feb 1831. Both are sons of the William Hynd & Marjory / May Hynd marriage of 6 Jun 1827. Thanks for the input, which I appreciate. Best wishes, Paul

Dundee,William could have been lost at sea.Do you have an occupation for him? No Bapts for the older issue ,either illigit or could not afford at the time.

Ellen

deleted, double-posted

Ah yes, I'd been hunting around the census for posible earlier children. ;)

1841

Name: David Hynd
Age: 12
Estimated birth year: abt 1829
Gender: Male
Where born: Angus, Scotland

Civil parish: Dundee
County: Angus
Address: Cowgate
Occupation: Flax Preparer

Janet Lamond 35
Robt Lamond 15
Jane Lamond 4
James Urquhart 15
Lily Urquhart 15
David Hynd 12

3. DAVID HYND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 30 NOV 1828 Dundee, Angus, Scotland
7. JAMES HYND - International Genealogical Index
Gender: Male Christening: 10 FEB 1831 Dundee, Angus, Scotland

I'm just of the "no stone unturned" bent, which sometimes turns something up, but in this case you've turned 'em all over already. ;)

The ages of the children in 1841 -- 10, 8, 4, 8mo ... there are a couple of gaps there that are a bit more than one sometimes sees, and gaps like that often are an indication of time between partners, as when one sees a blended family.

A death date of 1834 would fit with William being the father of the older two and not the younger two, for sure. Is there a baptism record for John c1837?

On the other hand ... Mary not remarrying might be an indication of estrangement rather than widowhood ... and your William not being in the family plot ... it could suggest he had split when the kids were young. How far back do the graves go, i.e. are there Hynd family burials before Mary?

It's like being on a jury: some factors weigh on one side of the balance, some on the other, and since we weren't there, we can't say what "the truth" is!

What name did William (Junior) give on his marriage registration for his father please? Did he give father's occupation and was he deceased please?

Hi Janey ! Thanks for your continuing excellent input on this. Yes, Ford is Marjory / May's maiden name which she seems to be reverting to after she is widowed. I discovered only yesterday from Dundee Cemeteries dept that Marjory / May Ford is interred in our Hynd family grave, but no sign of William. I still think that the William in the Old Howff in 1834 is our man, and that Marjory maybe used her widowed husband's surname to cover up a possible illegitimacy. Or maybe the records are just missing ?!? Best regards, Paul R Hynd

By 1851, May has changed her name, but young William's still a Hynd!

Name: William Hynd
Age: 11
Estimated birth year: abt 1840
Relationship: Son
Mother's Name: May Ford
Gender: Male
Where born: Dundee, Forfarshire

Civil parish: Dundee
Town: Dundee
County: Angus
Address: Blacks Croft No 17

May Ford 40
William Hynd 11


James (lodger) and Jane (niece) are off elsewhere and I don't see John.


Oh. Look who Jane is a niece of, though, and not so far away:

Name: Elisabeth Ford
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1816
Relationship: Head
Where born: Dundee, Forfarshire

Civil parish: Dundee
Town: Dundee
County: Angus
Address: Blacks Croft No 113

Elisabeth Ford 35
James Guthrie 18
Jane Hynd 18
Euphemia Hamilton 22
Margt Hamilton 11
Isabell Kennedy 61


Was Ford May/Marjorie's name before marriage? Yes, duh, you said that at the beginning. Oh well, no remarriage there then. No chance young William is registered as Ford, I suppose.