Find Ancestors

Hi Jim,

I would hazard a guess that the last 4 days has been a whirl wind for you with all this info on trying to find your mothers birth parentage.... hopefully we have managed to do this for you, unfortunately we may never know the reason why she was given up, but if it was down to the fact of depression my heart would go out to her. It sounds like your Grandparents Pegg were her salvation and also your mothers.

Life is very mysterious and often things happen for a reason, my own Grandmother lost 2 children in the 1940's, then a couple of years later she had twins (my father and Uncle), she was not able to have more children after this...... I often think that this was almost a repayment for what was taken from her, and maybe your mother was "repayment" for your Grandmothers lost child?

Like I said mysterious ways.

Anyway Jim have a great birthday tomorrow and I'll have a drink for you too......... any excuse!!!


Dee x

Alan's death;

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Alan Thornton
Name: Alan Thornton
Death Registration Month/Year: 1941
Age at death (estimated): 0
Registration district: Gateshead
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 1469
Quarter Apr/May/june


Have to pop out for a while, but will return later.


Dee x

Hi Jim,

You are too kind, an expert...... ohh I wish, but it is only because I know where to look for the info. It is out there it's just the knowing where that you need.


Looks like Brians' birth;

England & Wales, Birth Index: 1916-2005
about Brian N Thornton
Name: Brian N Thornton
Mother's Maiden Surname: Pegg
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1939
Registration district: Gateshead
Registration county: Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 1214 (

And sadly his death;

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Brian N Thornton
Name: Brian N Thornton
Death Registration Month/Year: 1940
Age at death (estimated): 1
Registration district: Durham North Western
Inferred County: Durham
Volume: 10a
Page: 871




Alans birth;

England & Wales, Birth Index: 1916-2005
about Alan Thornton
Name: Alan Thornton
Mother's Maiden Surname: Pegg
Date of Registration: Jan Feb Mar 1941
Registration district: Gateshead
Registration county: Durham
Volume Number: 10a
Page Number: 1749

I can't see a death at the mo but will look deeper later tonight.



And Joyces' birth;

England & Wales, Birth Index: 1916-2005
about Joyce Thornton
Name: Joyce Thornton
Mother's Maiden Surname: Pegg
Date of Registration: Oct Nov Dec 1942
Registration district: Nthmbld W
Registration county: Cumberland, Northumberland/Westmorland
Volume Number: 10b
Page Number: 419 (

And her death;

England & Wales, Death Index: 1916-2005
about Joyce Thornton
Name: Joyce Thornton
Death Registration Month/Year: 1943
Age at death (estimated): 0
Registration district: Newcastle Upon Tyne
Inferred County: Northumberland
Volume: 10b
Page: 8
Quarter Jan/Feb/march


Now I think that if Joyce was still born she wouldn't be on the "normal" register, but she would have been put on the stillborn register...... so I would hazard a guess that little Joyce actually drew breathe for a short while at least.

Your poor mother to have lost 3 children, God bless.


Dee x

Dee, you are AMAZING, I just don't know where you find it all you are a true expert at this,can I ask you another favour Please. My mother had 3 other children before us ,

Brian Noel Thornton Dob 25 th December 1937-39 approx died 18mths -2 years old
Alan Thornton Dob not known about 1940 aged 6 months maybe
Joyce Thornton still born we think

can you find any information on any of these please

Jim.

Hi Jim,

Looks like a possible birth for a child of your Grandparents;

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Births Sep 1910 (99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PEGG Thomas W P Gateshead 10a 1062


And sadly the death;


Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deaths Dec 1910 (97%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pegg Thomas W P 0 Gateshead 10a 529



Dee x

Hi All, I have spoken to my older sister and she thinks, she can remember our mother saying that her mother,name never mentioned( Mary Jane Park)???was suffering a form of post natal depression after her birth,and that she may have been considering taking her own life and that of her baby on the banks of the river Tyne,and as a consequence my grandparents PEGG stepped in and offered to raise the baby as their own. My sister can also just remember something being mentioned about grandma Pegg had a baby who had died at about 6 weeks, and as a result of this birth she was unable to have any more children.

Jim

Yes Dee, I know Vine street very well, it was a long row of terraced houses, upstairs &downstairs. My grandparents(Pegg) were still living in 125 Vine street when they both died in 1966.My parents decided to move from a rented council house, back into 125 Vine street on the 6th December 1966 (The day my grandma Pegg died) as they had bought the property (125/127) back in 1963. It was probably like coming HOME for my mother,who later died suddenly in that house in the March of 1972. Memories,Memories some good and some SAD.I met my childhood sweetheart at 15, who lived at No113, Vine street and we later married in 1973 after my mothers death,and have been together now for 37 years.We have 2 daughters and 2 wonderful grandaughters 5 & 3 years old, Life goes on and things change, but the memories live on in your heart forever. These houses were all demolished in the mid 1970's for land redevelopment. and the name Vine Street lives on in this new estate.These last few days have been very moving for me,as YOU ALL have been trying so hard to find missing pieces of the jigsaw ,I thought I would never find out about .Yes I think we are nearly there,although I may never find out why Mary Jane Park had to give her baby away??.Had her husband William Park joined the army and gone off to war ???,his war record may tell when he enlisted.

Jim.

Jim,

Look at the address of your Grandfathers WW1 records.......... then look at the address of the Park's family in 1911!!!

Only 4 doors away from eachother!!!

I think we may have struck gold (keeping my fingers crossed for you).

Barbara your 1911 census may have been the piece in the jigsaw to link it all together, brilliant!


Dee x

here you are Dee hope this helps a little


1911 census transcription details for: 119 Vine Street Gateshead

National Archive Reference:

RG14PN30412 RG78PN1748A RD557 SD2 ED2 SN238


Reg. District: Gateshead Sub District: Gateshead
Parish: Gateshead Enum. District: 2

Address: 119 Vine Street Gateshead
County: Durham


Name Relation Condition/
Yrs married Sex Age Birth
Year Occupation Where Born

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PARK, William Head Married
5 years M 26 1885 House Painter Gateshead Cy Durham

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PARK, Mary Jane Wife Married F 24 1887 Newcastle

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

PARK, Thomas Son M 4 1907 Gateshead Cy Durham

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2 children born before 1911 one had died

Yes Dee, my mother Hilda was their only child.

Jim.

Sorry Janey, must do better, well I'll try and type faster (can't promise you'll understand it though... tee hee!!!)

Think that Mary Jane was from Northumberland and William on the free check shows as born in Durham.

I've looked for a connection for Craggs/Park to Pegg, Noble and Banks.......... although there are a few names that marry with these surnames I couldn't see anything that stood out.

Be very interesting to see the whole 1911 census... I wonder if they lived close to the Pegg family??

Also it looks like the Pegg family didn't have children of their own.... is this correct Jim??


Dee x

Oh Ann, you are a taskmistress.

If William's age on the 1911 is accurate, this is a perfet match:

Births Mar 1885
Park William Gateshead 10a 907

I don't have paid access to the 1911; anybody want to check the place of birth? Also for Mary Jane, I guess.

I hate WWI records. I was going to get around to it eventually ... sigh ... At least our Canadian attestations record next of kin right on the front page ... can yours do that? Noooo.

I'm not seeing a good match.

The only William Park I see born 1885 is in Hull, enlisted on 2 Dec 1915, and is married to Elizabeth (1907), with children Harold and others.

There's a William Park born in Lancashire who was 29 when he enrolled I don't know when (and after 3 pages his records get muddled with somebody else's altogether).

Oh wait, version 2.0 of that one is legible, he wasn't 29, he was born on 29 May 1900.

So all in all ... I'm not seeing one to fit.

Start with Hilda Park birth cert, I think.



Oh great, Dee, you couldn't have said that 10 minutes faster ... sigh ... heaved heavily ... !

I scrutenised the Ancestry WW1 records, unfortunately nothing showed for William Park that I could link to it definately being him.

Evening all;

I think this is William Park and his parents/siblings in 1901, he is an apprentice painter and on the 1911 free search check his occupation confirms painter;

1901 England Census
about William Park
Name: William Park
Age: 16
Estimated birth year: abt 1885
Relation: Son
Father's Name: Thomas
Mother's Name: Martha
Gender: Male
Where born: Gateshead, Durham, England

Civil parish: Gateshead
Ecclesiastical parish: St James
County/Island: Durham
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View image

Registration district: Gateshead
Sub-registration district: Gateshead
ED, institution, or vessel: 58
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 89
Household Members: Name Age
Thomas Park 57
Martha Park 45
Elizabeth Park 19
William Park 16
Thomas Park 14
Ralph Park 7


Dee x

Janey,

What about WW1 records on ancestry, I do not have a subscription for that so am not sure how complete they are.

Ann

hello Jim,


Happy birthday for Sunday! Glad you are happy with the results so far, they are a clever lot on here.......you need to get your certs now and they may give other clues to the circumstances surrounding your mums "adoption"

WWW.gwgc.org

The above web address is where you can search for your William Park, you may be lucky and there may be additional info that will prove he is your William.

Next of kin were asked to fill in cards with additional info and return, sadly not all of them did......for obvious reasons

You keep sorting ... we confused even ourselves along the way. ;)

There is one WWI death that matches that regiment:

Name: PARK
Initials: W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Corporal
Regiment/Service: Durham Light Infantry
Unit Text: 1st/9th Bn.
Date of Death: 21/07/1918
Service No: 325262
Awards: M M
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: II. I. 5.
Cemetery: COURMAS BRITISH CEMETERY

Unfortunately, no age/next of kin info.


Ooops, there was this one I'd looked at earlier but kind of ruled out because of her name and address -- Mary J would fit, but Clark and Scotland ...?

Name: PARK, WILLIAM
Initials: W
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Second Lieutenant
Regiment/Service: Durham Light Infantry
Unit Text: 15th Bn.
Age: 32
Date of Death: 21/03/1918
Additional information:
Son of Robert and Margaret Park, of Ashington, Northumberland;
>> husband of Mary J. Clark Park, of 29, Spottiswoode St., Edinburgh.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: Panel 68 to 72.
Memorial: POZIERES MEMORIAL

WOW !!!!! Ladies (Janey,Victoria, Ann,Dee, Seaham Lass,Cynthia)what can i say, I'm speechless.I came back on tonight to see if there had been any more developments and I have just been blown away by all your hard work. I have printed the whole thread out so i can digest it all slowly, and to pick out the parts that i need to follow up with regard to certificates, I need to apply for.It is my birthday on Sunday and you have given me one of the best presents I could have wished for, may I thank you all once again for your time and efforts. If any of you find anything else out,or can point me in a direction then i would be more than grateful, and I will continue to keep coming back to this thread to check. Just one last thing ith regard to William Park who may have died in WW1 ,his regiment may have been the local one, The Durham Light Infantry ( D.L.I ) Which was my Grandads, who was a stretcher bearer in the medical corps in WW1. Many Thanks Jim.

I chcked earlier Janey, and as suspected there are loads of them to wade through...........not too daunting should we know which regiment but we do not.

"I haven't found a death for William Park, however he may not have survived WW1 and this maybe the reason that the daughter Hilda was given up for 'adoption'?"

Gotta get the Park-Craggs marriage certificate to learn his age -- I hesitate to think how many W Park-s may have been killed in WWI. Okay, I'll look. ;)

Oh duh, his dob is on the 1911.

For a fleeting moment a few months ago, CWGC had a functioning useful search engine, with criteria one could search by. But it's still just surname, initial, date, nationality.

338 UK W Park-s died in WWI. Most are William, of course. And ours has no middle iniitial/name. Born c1885 would make ours abt 29 in 1914. Sorting results by age ... oh great, that mixes up the various surname variants. Parker, Parkes, Parks, etc. (The 338 aren't all "Park", but sorting through them is still a major challenge.)

Well, the first 150 entries are all age unknown. And many more ... Well, I checked a few W/William Park-s, to no avail.

The Park-Eltringham marriage certificate would clarify her age and marital status, and father's name for comparison with the Craggs-Park marriage certificate.

The Hilda Park birth cert is definitely the pace to start, though. Yay ... um, everybody!