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I found the entry for the marriage...if I hadn't seen the Bowtell, I would have missed it.
John (obscured) Fifh married Ellen (partial obscured) Bowtell, (presume March as in the March section) 13th 1667.
However, no baptism record for John at that parish.

I knew i wasn't far off...

In England, January 1 was celebrated as the New Year festival, but from the 12th century to 1752 the year in England began on March 25 (Lady Day). So, for example, the Parliamentary record records the execution of Charles I occurring in 1648 (as the year did not end until March 24), although modern histories adjust the start of the year to January 1 and record the execution as occurring in 1649.

I'd have to check one of my magazines to see when the dates changes to the way we know them now.


T x

Oh really?? Oh dear, I have no idea about ancient writing and dates, so this could be very interesting.
OK, off to search Great Dunmow........

They married in Great Dunmow, is it possible he was born there instead?

You tended to find people said they were from a village instead of where they were actually from to avoid the costs of posting the Banns.

I know what you mean about the handwriting.... if you get a good one your fine, but then if you get a dodgy one you can spend all day and get nothing done!!

And the dates all dissapear, it's lent and passover etc, using the biblical calendar!

Also, depending on which year you go back to, the years started in April! So december 1650 is followed by March 1650! Grrrr


Tracey x

No John Fish baptised 1660, but not to say he was from a different parish.
Isn't it just amazing to read the actual handwriting from 350 years ago??? The spelling is marvellous..especially December as Dofombor, and the mix of S and F such as Sufan (Susan).

I am going to do a search for John's baptism, hopefully it will be recorded and his parents names there..will be back soon

John & Ellens children

John Fish
Christened: 2 Feb 1682, Great Hallingbury, Essex

~~~~~~
Richard Fish
Christened: 16 Jul 1684, Great Hallingbury, Essex
Buried: 20 Nov 1756, Little Hallingbury, Essex

~~~~~~
Joseph Fish
Christened: 9 Jun 1690, Great Hallingbury, Essex
Married: 24 Nov 1723, Much Hadham, Hertfordshire
Died: 7 Mar 1746, Much Hadham, Hertfordshire

Marriage Information:

Joseph married Ann Eggleston, daughter of John Eggleston and Ann Farman, on 24 Nov 1723 in Much Hadham, Hertfordshire. (Ann Eggleston was christened on 11 Mar 1702 in Much Hadham, Hertfordshire.)

~~~~~~
George Fish
Christened: 15 Feb 1700, Great Hallingbury, Essex
Buried: 1702, Great Hallingbury, Essex

~~~~~~
Wife's details.

Ellen Bowtell
Christened: 6 Jul 1660, Thaxted, Essex
Married: 13 Oct 1676, Great Dunmow, Essex
Buried: 1 Jul 1719, Great Hallingbury, Essex

Scource...
http://www.btinternet.com/~biggestbird/Tree/1917.htm


Tracey x

Another bit for you...

John Fish
Married: 13 Oct 1676, Great Dunmow, Essex
Buried: 25 Jul 1715, Great Hallingbury, Essex

Marriage Information:

John married Ellen Bowtell on 13 Oct 1676 in Great Dunmow, Essex. (Ellen Bowtell was christened on 6 Jul 1660 in Thaxted, Essex and was buried on 1 Jul 1719 in Great Hallingbury, Essex.)

I'm not sure we had a marriage date before?



Tracey x

woohoo...looks good...or does it LOL

Hahahaha...what about this random find?

D/DKw/O9/5

Repository: Essex Record Office
Level: Category Estate and Family records
Level: Fonds TURNOUR FAMILY; HALLINGBURY AND PARNDON ESTATES
Level: Sub-Fonds OFFICIAL
Level: Series Papers of Sir Edward Turnour in his capacity as justice of the peace

Level:
Item
Reference Code D/DKw/O9/5
Dates of Creation 1711
Extent 1
Scope and Content Information of John Fish of Great Hallingbury, labourer, relating to theft of sheep
[See D/DKw O9/2]

Date From 1711
Date To 1711

http://seax.essexcc.gov.uk/result_details.asp?DocID=128433

Sadly the IGI isn't complete, and your villages are not on there.....yet!

It might be worth you contacting the person who runs the Essex OPC (Online Parish Clerks) and see what other data they may have for you?


Tracey x

Yes, I totall agree
And also, as I mentioned before, Cornelius Fish..he must have been a notable as he was mentioned as executor of his son in law.

It's just a possible link.... The fact he's a Fish in what would be a small village back then could indicate he fits in somewhere!


T x

For John Fish to have been presented as rector in 1610, he would have to have been born no later than around 1590..if rectors were that young, so possibly 1580 ... particularly as it states he was still alive in 1660.
But sadly no records that I can see..as yet.

It mentions a John Fish... it could be a link to your family. It all helps build up a picture.


Tracey x

Ahh, yes I see it now ty. I saw that before, but didn't know what to make of it.
Any help how to link this in and what it means please?

Sorry Tracey, but what was I to look at regarding the Little Hallingbury links? I did look up Great Hallingbury in the same site, and found an Edward Elmer that married the daughter of Cornelius Fish, but again, can find no links via IGI.

Well this is a copy of someone's tree, so it might be worth checking to see if they have their facts right?

It's always helpful to check data and not take it all as gospel.

It could however be a baptism date and not the actual birth year?



Tracey x

hmmm.... found this about Little Hallingbury.

1594–1610, and also rector of Balsham (Cambs.), was denounced c. 1607 as negligent and non-resident. (fn. 131) John Fish, presented in 1610, was sequestrated in 1644. He did not go quietly, for in 1647 John Wilson, a Carthusian who had been appointed minister by the Parliamentary commissioners, complained that Fish refused to surrender the Rectory house, and was obstructing the payment of tithes to Wilson. Fish was still claiming tithes in 1649, but Wilson remained minister until 1657. Thomas Waterhouse, another Carthusian, succeeded Wilson in 1658, but was ejected in 1660, when Fish recovered the living. (fn. 132) William Salisbury, rector 1766–96, was a non-resident pluralist. (fn. 133) Matthew Raine, rector 1810–11, was headmaster of Charterhouse and a friend of Samuel Parr and Richard Porson. (fn. 134) Charles Pritchett, 1835–49, was for 26 years reader at Charterhouse. (fn. 135) Stanley Pemberton, 1849–80, (fn. 136) restored the Rectory and the church.

From: 'Parishes: Little Hallingbury', A History of the County of Essex: Volume 8 (1983), pp. 124-131. URL: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=63847 Date accessed: 28 May 2010.