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Interestingly Tracey, I have been looking at family webpages with Fish relatives, and one of them gives the coat of arms and history of the name etc.
They have all been USA sites, so the English details get skipped over, but one of them stated how the Fish name came from the people that primarily fished, and even in the 1600 records I have been looking at, many a mention of fines and licenses to drag the river and amount of fish that can be taken, or must be supplied.
They all had different areas that they claim their Fish ancestors came from.
I still think that for all of my ancestors to have lived in the same or very close area, and to find other Fishies earlier in also the same area and parish should be seriously followed.
I was just hoping that a person of nobility, or high authority/note, would be easier to find details about rather than say, John the sheep stealer.
But wow...have I learned so much the last couple of days.

hi
they are £12 could be worth buying
go to web address for essex family history lots of other info on site

Ty safc.
Would you kow how much they are?
Thing is, I am not so much looking for records for the pure pleasure of it, it's to try and connect John Fish 1660, with other Fish names in the same area.
Though it is always fascinating to read what your ancestors got up to in the past, and to look at 350 yr old handwriting amazes me.
Speaking of which Tracey, I wonder if it's worth looking into our sheep rustler John???

hi
www.esfh.org.uk
you can buy cd,s
Essex Poor Law Documents, Indexes and Transcripts, 1574-1895
Essex has over 400 ancient parishes, many of which have surviving settlement papers among their parish records. These include Settlement Certificates, Removal Orders, Settlement Examinations, records of Apprenticeship and Bastardy Examinations. Many thousands of such records survive in the Essex Record Office. This CD has a full index of some 40,000 names and replaces the original production on microfiche together with some additional poor law records which have recently been discovered.

It's highly possible. Alot of it from where you are at going backwards will more than certainly be circumstantial.

This is why i said about getting all the data together and then looking at what you have before we make 'best guesses'

You'll also have to remember your starting to get into the terratory of surname origins. I would guess Fish was an occupational surname, and not a kinship one or a location one. So at some point they may not have been local to the area? Or if there is a big river near where you have them now they could have come from there?

We most def need a bigger picture.... and it's an interesting journey getting there also!


T x

Ahh yes. I did read somewhere about knighthoods handed out freely, but still, you would think there was some mention.
I have found snippets re Cornelius...had his fingers in a few pies it would seem, but apart from being chamberlaine of London, he seemed prominent in helping the poor and responsible for the handouts. He was also church warden at St Mary Woolchurch. I found a record of his wife's burial..but she was listed as Mrs. Cornelius Fish.
What interested me looking through the church records was a John Fish, clerk of the church. He, along with many others, lost a lot of children to the plague. He was married to Alice.
Maybe he is a link also?
As 'my' John was born 1660, he could well have been a son of John the clerk and Alice.

Back then, they were handed out quite often, my Skinner tree has many Knights in it, none of which come up on any radar.

You have to remember unless they were groundbreaking and 'did' something of note, they would have been just landowners, and thats not very newsworthy!

I would imagine in their day they were probably notorious, but sadly this has been lost through history.

I shall have a lok at the Times Online and see what comes up.

Having looked at the news article on Cornelius Fish, he only appears in the papers once because of his position....and his relationship to Lincolns Inn and the government of the day. He wasn't really newsworthy himself either, just a man of note locally, who clearly had money also.


Tracey x

OK, Can someone please explain to me why a Knight...a titled gentleman..named in public, does NOT exist in any records??? Not in the peerage list, not in any IGI records, nothing nowhere!!
I have found Sir William Button, but not the same person.
Cornelius states in his will his daughter Jame Anne and her husband Sir William Button knight.
Any suggestions?

Well some of the will has been deciphered, and there is mention of his daughter Anne, who married Sir William Button.
Surprisingly though, I can not find any mention of Sir Button??? The only person of this name is from Ireland.
Both Anne and William had died before 1624.
Considering Cornelius was of high stature, and had a knight as a son in law, you would think there would be plenty of information about his family.

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=1002308&queryType=1&resultcount=1

The direct link for the will


Tracey x

Bugger....meanwhile, I am updating all of those names from the family site..at 3.45am LOL.

oooooo, i cannot get the site to open at all..... maybe they are doing some updates?



T x

I'll see what i can do...

T x

Tracey, are you able to look at Cornelius' will?
I don't know if it's me or the site.
I am hoping there are references to family members there.

For some reason, the probate section of the national archives just refuses to load. Can see everything else, just not wills.

UK, Extracted Probate Records
about Fish, Thomas
Text: Fish, Thomas, widr., St. Martins in the feilds, Mdx. 1653-4 3 129
Book: Index of Acts of Administration in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury 1649-1654 (Acts of Administration)
Collection: England: Canterbury - Administrations in The Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 1649-1654

UK, Extracted Probate Records
about Fish, Richard
Text: Fish, Richard, Bow Brickhill, Bucks. 1656 47
Book: Index to Acts of Administration in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury 1655-1660 (Acts of Administration)
Collection: England: Canterbury - Administrations in The Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 1655-1660 (A-F)

Wendy

A bit more for you...

UK, Extracted Probate Records
about Fish, Cornelius, Esquire
Text: 1626 Fish, Cornelius, esquire, Chamberlaine of London, St. Mary Woolchurch 113 Hele
Book: 1620 to 1629.
Collection: England: Canterbury - Wills Proved in The Prerogative Court of Canterbury, 1620-1629


Tracey x

Want to PM me your email address??


Tracey x

Hmmmm, indeed. Wonder then if he appeared in the Times or the London Gazette?

I shall check the Timesonline as it's a subs base site, but the Gazette is free to search!



Tracey x

24 August 1660 -- Petition of John Fish, Doctor in Divinity; petitioner having shown in a petition that he was lawfully entitled to the rectory of Hallingbury Parva, Essex.

Doctor in Divinity??? And we think today's 'preachers' come up with some titles!!! LOL


31 March 1626 -- Draft order of the committee for relief of the poor infected with the plague for an account of the disbursement of certain sums received by the Lord Mayor and Mr Alderman Gore.
Annexed:
1 The brief account of Cornelius Fish, Chamberlain of the City of London, for money by him received and disbursed for the relief and comfort of poor people lately visited with the infection of the plague.

AHHH, as I suspected...indeed a man of importance...