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Vincent Brown is the brother of Eve's Grandfather Albert. So no need to research Albert.

That looks like a good possibility for Annie as Schwartz. I wonder if her husband's whole family changed their surname?

Having heard about this pretty impressive piece of detective work, I have to say - yep......I'm impressed but poor Eve must be mightily confused by now.

Eve, just ask if there is anything you would like explaining more fully, then please just ask...and I am sure someone will go through it with you.


Black/Schwartz/Brown.............sheesh!

A pat on the back for the amazing duo.

Indeed, there she is! Unfortunately, they don't seem to have married because they needed to. If they had, we might have descendants.

Guess you're back to hunting up the other sibs!

Query though -- what is Eve's own relationship to Vincent Brown?

If you're descended from one of Vincent's siblings, Eve, there's not much point in hunting up your ancestor. ;)

JC
I was using him as a reference to see if I could Rose Ann in other documents. The 1901 shows Rose with his family before their marriage.

LK - we're not actually looking to trace Mr Schwarz's ancestry, are we? ;)

I don't see any outgoing passengers after 1911 that leap to the eye as being them (as Schwarz or Black), but Black's a pretty common name ...

1891 census - household transcription
Person: SCHWARZ, Ernest
Address: 5, Bedfordbury, St Martin In The Fields, London

SCHWARZ, Theodor Head Married M 51 1840 Carver
Argoore
Switzerland British Subject VIEW
SCHWARZ, Regina Wife Married F 43 1848 Shirt & Collar Dresser
Lucerne
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARZ, Anna Daughter Single F 16 1875 Clerk Press Cutting Agency
Argoore
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARZ, Ernest Son M 13 1878
Argoore
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARZ, Eliza Daughter F 12 1879
Grisons
Switzerland VIEW
CANDRIOM, Henrich Lodger Single M 23 1868 Porter
Berne
Switzerland VIEW
BURGER, Albert Lodger Single M 30 1861 Hotel Secretary
Argoore
Switzerland VIEW
REY, John Lodger Single M 30 1861 Porter
Grissons
Switzerland VIEW
GRASS, Peter Lodger Single M 25 1866 Porter
Argoore
Switzerland VIEW
STOFFELS, Y Lodger Single M 25 1866 Cuisinier
Holland VIEW
AUGUSTE, Cureh W Lodger Single M 22 1869 Artist
Paul Lausanne
Switzerland

Person: SCHWARTZ, Ernest
Address: 16, Gordon Street, St Pancras
SCHWARTZ, Theodor Head Married M 61 1840 Hotel Employe Carver
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARTZ, Regina Wife Married F 53 1848
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARTZ, Annie Daughter Single F 26 1875
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARTZ, Ernest Son Single M 23 1878 Relief Stamper
Switzerland VIEW
SCHWARTZ, Elise Daughter Single F 22 1879 Milliner
Switzerland VIEW
BROWN, Rose Servant Single F 25 1876 Cook (Domestic)
England VIEW
BATERVANTUDAIRE, Charles Boarder Single M 24 1877 Student At Law
Ceylon VIEW
WIJSYSKOORE, Gerard Boarder Single M 22 1879 Student At Law
Ceylon VIEW
KETTLE, George W Boarder Single M 25 1876 Advertisement Expert
England VIEW
FRALICK, Draper E Boarder Married M 34 1867 Journalist
Canada VIEW
ROSSITER, John Boarder Married M 47 1854 Flour Salesman
Paignton
Devonshire VIEW
ROSSITER, Sarah A Boarder Married F 42 1859 Wife
London VIEW
BARNES, Edward Boarder Single M 28 1873 Private Secretary (Gent)
London

There are Black-Brown births in Chelmsford in 1911, 1914 and 1917. The first is an Ernest, so it might seem possible -- but:

- there would have been no reason for them to change their name before WWI
- in 1917 Annie was 42, and starting to have kids in 1911 when married in 1902 seems maybe unusual

No Schwarz-Brown births -- and the 1911 shows no children born, I guess.

1911 census - household transcription
Person: SCHWARZ, Rose Annie
Address: 56 Roseberry Gdr Harringay
SCHWARZ, Ernest Joseph Head Married M 33 1878 Compositor Printer Lucerne Switzerland Resident
SCHWARZ, Rose Annie Wife Married
9 years F 35 1876 Bildeston Suffolk

oooh Jc I will check it out. I was looking for No 5

LK, were we cross-posting and you missed that scathingly brilliant bit of detective work of mine?!?

My next step would be to try to track down other siblings

Here is one

1911 census - household transcription
Person: BROWN, Ethel
Address: Longford St Mansions Regents Park

PETTITT, Hannah Head Widow F 56 1855 Caretaker Lidgate Suffolk VIEW
PETTITT, John William Son Single M 27 1884 Motor Washer Middlesborough Yorkshire VIEW
PETTITT, Frederick Charles Son Single M 20 1891 Private Service Groom London St Pancras VIEW
BROWN, Ethel Visitor Single F 25 1886 Domestic Servant Housemaid Glemsford Suffolk

1911

SCHWARZ ROSE ANNIE 1876 35 Edmonton Middlesex

born BILDESTON

>> living at 56 ROSEBERRY GDR HARRINGAY

with

SCHWARZ ERNEST JOSEPH 1878 33

(All found by combinations of searches w/o paying -- I haven't viewed the record.)

That all seems a bit of a coincidence!


>>>> Schwarz is German for Black.


Marriages Mar 1902
Bodman William Henry Pancras 1b 235
> Brown Rose Annie Pancras 1b 235
Mitchener Bertha Blanche K Pancras
> Schwarz Joseph Ernest Pancras 1b 235


Ta da!

When England went to war with Germany, they changed their name.


Births Jun 1875
Browne Rose Annie Cosford 4a 523

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/367180/person/-1327719111?ssrc=

These trees are not necessarily complete or accurate but if you are able to make contact they may have another piece of the puzzle.

http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/6990814/person/75063651?ssrc=

public tree on ancestry with Abram brown and Elizabeth Taylor.


http://trees.ancestry.co.uk/tree/5866136/person/-1382343420

???

1911 census - household transcription
Person: BECKETT, Annette
Address: 57 Myddelton Square
BECKETT, Eyra Sterdore Head Married M 39 1872 Free Church Minister Cumberland Whitehaven VIEW
BECKETT, Annette Wife Married F 36 1875 Suffolk Bildeston VIEW
STAPLETON, George Visitor Single M 28 1883 Stationers Assistant London

Hi LadyKira
Not sure which AnnieI have viewed 3 possabilites,
Annie Pannifer1879 born Bildeston, Annie Partridge 1877
born Bildeston, Annie Sadler 1873 born Bildeston,
Allthese ladies were married. Thanks again
Eve

Hi LadyKira

This is the right Annie 1876 Bildeston Suffolk Thanks
EVE

these are the only Qnnie's coming up 1901

Household BECKETT, Annette E 1876 25 F Cosford Suffolk VIEW VIEW
Household CRICKMORE, Annie 1874 27 F Cosford Suffolk VIEW VIEW
Household PANNIFER, Annie 1879 22 F Cosford Suffolk VIEW VIEW
Household PARTRIDGE, Annie 1877 24 F Cosford Suffolk VIEW VIEW
Household SADLER, Annie 1873 28 F Tendring Essex VIEW VIEW
Household STEVENSON, Annie 1877 24 F Ipswich Suffolk