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lol no I don't think your pushy at all and you certainly were not the last time you helped, I am so pleased that you all are so willing to help me and I don't consider your questions/questioning whether I have it right in the first place out of place, if you get my gist.
I do have Williams marriage cert he was married to Ellen Bailey on the 9th June 1889, he was 23 and she 20.
His profession is collier, residence at time of marriage is Stanley Moor, Ellen's is Milton, Baddeley Edge.
Williams father is Jame's Simcock profession collier.
Witnesses Alfred (looks like) Harvey and Hannah Bailey Ellen's sister.
Hope this helps

Madmeg is right. It's the only way you can know for sure.

England & Wales, FreeBMD Marriage Index: 1837-1915
about William Simcock
Name: William Simcock
Year of Registration: 1889
Quarter of Registration: Apr-May-Jun
District: Stoke Upon Trent
County: Staffordshire
Volume: 6b
Page: 225 (click to see others on page)

Spouse Ellen Bailey

You see, you set off saying his parents were James and Emily, so two people found that family with no William. Then three people found a family with a William, father James. And at least one of the first pair, David, and probably the other one, Sue, is now having second thoughts. Fair enough. That is what this board does - explores possibilities. So now four out of five of us, and possibly all five, are leaning towards James and Harriet.

EDIT, now all of us are on that train of thought. Can't be ignored.

You must get that marriage certificate. Sorry to be pushy. Perhaps I was last time I tried to help? Was I right then? Ouch!!!

This is James and Harriett's Marriage same area,just 2 years in between.


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Sep 1861 (>99%)
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Booth James Leek 6b 263
Clulow Matilda Leek 6b 263
HANCOCK Harriet Leek 6b 263
Simcock James Leek 6b 263

Madmeg, just added some info which may help, sorry I should have gotten my folder out sooner.
I really do appreciate all your help and yes it does state Williams address as Waterfall Farm but I reasoned that my grandfather was living there too and that's how it came to be on the cert

I still "insist" you need that marriage cert in case the witnesses help us to determine the correct James and family. I can see no other possible means of moving on. Of course, they may not give us any help at all. But I can't see anything else that will.

He may well have lived at Waterfall Farm as the father of your grandfather, but that doesn't mean he lived there as a child.

Are you saying the marriage cert of your grandfather gives the address of his own father? Most unusual.

Only trying to get to the truth.

Margaret

But how do you know that his parents are James and Emily?

Hi Madmeg you've helped me before, no I don't have a birth cert for William but on my grandfather marriage cert he is named as William Simcock of Waterfall Farm and as far as I can ascertain it was located at Basnetts Wood Endon, unfortunately the farm is no longer there now , Stoke-on-Trent, and we are a family of coal miners.
William married an Ellen Bailey June 9th 1889 and the witnesses were a Alfred (looks like) Harvey and Hannah Bailey a sister of Ellen's, they were wed at St Chads, parish of Bagnall, sorry I have just added the last piece of info after looking at my folder and finding the marriage cert, should have got it out sooner

But James and Emily have no son William in sight. James and Harriet do. And there is only one birth in Staffordshire at the right time.

Why did you think his parents were James and Emily in the first place?

You need that marriage certificate to see if the witnesses are useful.

David, Emily's father was a Thomas Kirk and I have his wife as a Mary surname unknown I did wonder if Emily had been born out of wedlock and had kept her mothers surname

Sue,
If you look at the original census image, it's very poor and very unclear, so I think it's an error in transcription. It's quite easy to misread 57 as 37.
David

Is this the marriage and do you have the certificate for them..

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Dec 1859 (>99%)
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Heath Emily Leek 6b 364
Ryles George Frederick Leek 6b 364
Simcock James Leek 6b 364
Tranfield Georgiana Leek 6b 364

There's this birth:

Births Jun 1866 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Simcock William Leek 6b 254

Unfortunately both James's found by folks are coal miners.

So the next question Pauline is do you have the marriage cert of your gt grandfather William, I assume his father was James, a coal miner, but who were the witnesses who might give us a clue as to which James we are looking for.

Sue C, the James and Harriett aren't my James, I did look at those two because the cottage "Blue Stone" was mentioned by a family member but then this was found to be a mistake and it was another cottage which was being referd to and I do know that the Enoch mentioned in your post is buried at St Lukes in Endon as I spoke to some residents of the area at a WW1 memorial service

David.

I think the 1881 censu is wrong as James was only 2 yrs older than Emily.

Thats why I deleted mine,

Hi Sue in Leeds and Sue C, blimey you guys are quick lol, the names Mary and Ellen could be significant because my grandfather always use to call me Mary Ellen, never could understand were he got it from but maybe these ladies were his aunts and I realize they are two different people but maybe if these two were his aunts could I have borne a resemblance to them hence him calling me by their names.
And also its amazing that Emily was a nurse because I am in nursing too

Are you sure you have the right parents for William?

There is this one in 1871

SIMCOCK, James Head M 35 1836 Staffordshire
SIMCOCK, Harriett Wife F 32 1839 Staffordshire
SIMCOCK, Enoch Son M 7 1864 Staffordshire
SIMCOCK, William Son M 5 1866 Staffordshire
SIMCOCK, Roseanna Daughter F 2 1869 Staffordshire

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

RG number:
RG10 Piece:
2878 Folio:
14 Page:
22

Registration District:
Leek Sub District:
Norton EnumerationDistrict:
1 Ecclesiastical Parish:


Civil Parish:
Endon Municipal Borough:
Address:
Blue Stone Cottages, Endon County:
Staffordshire

Yes, I was wondering about that one, Maureen and Madmeg. I think we'll have to wait for Pauline to clarify some points.

Someone has her in their tree on ancestry:

Ivory Family Tree
Public Member Tree
4 attached records, 4 sources
Preview
Name: Laura Alice Simcock
Birth: Abt 1861

4 attached records, 4 sources
Laura Alice Simcock Joel Clowes James Simcock Emily Heath or Kirk
Laura Alice Simcock
Birth: Abt 1861
Spouse: Joel Clowes
F: James Simcock

M: Emily Heath or Kirk

If you look at 1881 census there is a James Clowes, so the two families must have known each other.