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Yes... I think I sent for it ... .....but it has not arrived yet I sent for some others at the same time. perhaps today's post.

Anne

Hi Anne , I hate to say this but have you sent for the right certificate.

This is the one that I meant:

' On Lancashire BMD's there is a marriage for Isabella Smith and a William A Cattelle in 1885:

SMITH Isabella CATTELLE William A West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/102/131

on FreeBMD
Marriages Mar 1885 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Cattelle William Alfred W. Derby 8b 705
Gillis John W. Derby 8b 705
SCALLON Mary Josephine W.Derby 8b 705
>>SMITH Isabella W.Derby 8b 705

I have found William on the 1881 Census. He is a cab owner not a "leak grower" !!! Living with his wife and baby son at 1 Osborne Grove Everton.

So did her daughter Isabella marry William Catelle and go to china where she died and was buried in Bubbling well cemetery Peking. Is there any way to find out ? news papers etc

Anne

Well I'm Back... I said I would be

I have the marriage cert and it can't be my aunt I think it is her mother.
This lady was Isabella Smith 54yrs Widow of 17 Kirkdale (can't read) father Thomas Cowen Stonemason. She married William Taylor Dawson age 50 Widower it looks like leak grower of Osbourne Grove Everton . His father was Thomas Dawson a shipwright. They were married14th Feb 1887at Sharon Hall baptists West derby by certificate. The witness were Alfred Atkinson and Alice Smith.

My Greatgrand father was a stableman looking after horses for the Tramways. He died about 1887

Anne

A well travelled family

I have a photo of Aunt Isabella if you would like a copy let me know

Thanks your help I could never have found them on my own.


Anne

oh do let us know Anne.
It looks as if William and his brother Ernest were born in USA but the parents were from Cambridgeshire, UK, here they are in 1871
William E Cattell
Age: 35
Estimated birth year: abt 1836
Relation: Head
Spouse's name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Isle of Ely Statton, Cambridge
Civil parish: Liverpool
Ecclesiastical parish: St James the Less
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England
Registration district: Liverpool
Sub-registration district: St Martin
ED, institution, or vessel: 42
Household schedule number: 124
Household Members: Name Age
William E Cattell 35 occ: Engineer
Sarah Cattell 31 born Isle of Ely, Statton, Cambridge
William A Cattell 10 born New York
Ernest E Cattell 7 born New York

Hi you two, you are a force to be reckoned with. If I could bottle you I would make a fortune.

Well enough with the buttering up.!!!!!!

I put Isaballa Cotell and Cotelle on the Bristol University web site... no luck so I have sent for the marriage cert.
I will let you know when it arrives

It looks as though you have found them. Can I send a photo on grm

Anne

Dee, it came to me in the night, (how sad is that). I thought I'd check on the Lancashire BMD's they are so good. I do like solving mysteries, just wish I could solve some of mine.

I have sent Anne a PM in case she doesn't come back to her thread. I think I would risk £7 on the marraiage cert to confirm her father's name

Jennifer

This looks like Mabel and Isabella in 1891;

1891 Isle of Man Census
about Mabel Cattell
Name: Mabel Cattell
Age: 3
Estimated birth year: abt 1888
Relation: Granddaughter
Mother's Name: Isabella
Gender: Female
Where born: England
Civil parish: Onchan
Ecclesiastical parish: St Thomas
Town: Douglas
County/Island: Isle of Man
Country: Isle of Man
Street Address: View image
Condition as to marriage: View image
Education: View image
Employment status: View image
Occupation: View image
Registration district: Isle of Man
Sub-registration district: H
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Cattell 48
Isabella Cattell 26 >>> Daughter in Law
Mabel Cattell 3
Charles S Watson 25 Visitor
Arthur H Watson 21 Visitor


Just states born England



Dee x

Having a few PC probs at the mo.

Will keep trying to check other Cattelles out though.


Dee

Jennifer, you are soooo clever!!!!

UK Incoming Passenger Lists, 1878-1960
about William Alfred Cattelle
Name: William Alfred Cattelle
Birth Date: abt 1861
Age: 53
Port of Departure: Yokohama, Japan
Arrival Date: 11 Oct 1914
Port of Arrival: London, England
Ports of Voyage: Kobe, Nagasaki, Shanghai, Hong Kong, Singapore, Penang, Colombo, Port Said, Marseilles
Ship Name: Katori Maru
Search Ship Database: View the 'Katori Maru' in the 'Passenger Ships and Images' database
Shipping Line: Japan Europe Line
Official Number: 16494




Occupation; Engineer!!!



Dee x

Hi Anne, what do you think about the following:

On Lancashire BMD's there is a marriage for Isabella Smith and a William A Cattelle in 1885:

SMITH Isabella CATTELLE William A West Derby, Register Office or Registrar Attended Liverpool REG_WD/102/131

I searched for William A Cattelle an he is in West Derby in 1881, his occupation is Marine Engineer
William A. Catelle
Age: 20
Estimated birth year: abt 1861
Relation: Son
Mother's Name: Sarah
Gender: Male
Where born: Buffalo, United States

Civil parish: Everton
County/Island: Lancashire
Country: England

Street Address: 38 Anderson St
Education:

Employment status: View image
Occupation: Marine Engineer (SM)

Registration district: West Derby
Sub-registration district: Everton
ED, institution, or vessel: 39
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Catelle 38
William A. Catelle 20
Ernest E. Catelle 19
Mary J. Cox 50
William S. Foote 40
Dircas T. Foote 38
Thomas R. Foote 10

then I searched for a Cattelle birth and found
Births Dec 1887

Cattelle Mabel W.Derby 8b 487

Hope I am not clucthing at straws!

Jennifer

His name appears to be William Alfred Cattelle and he appears on Incoming Passenger Lists to UK but I only have Essential so can't view it. Probably him coming form USA though

Hi all

I have found this web site compiled by Bristol University they researched Chinese maritime history and I have found the following

"Bubbling Well Cemetery (Jing'an), opened 1898, closed 1951, total burials c.5,500, total cremations, c.1,350. In the winter of 1953-54 the cemetery was reclaimed for redevelopment. Graves were removed to the Dazang cemetery. There were 43 British naval and 13 British military graves. In the process of removal of the military graves the Chinese authorities deliberately obliterated all details other than names (see PRO file FO 369/5018, 1954). The present Jing'an Park occupies the site."

They have a search for burials and of course not knowing Isabella's married name I could not find her. I did try isabella Smith and came up with a lady buried in shanghai in 1944 aged 65 which can't be her.

This is a good site for anyone searching China

Anne

Sorry that was a mistype. I have their marriage cert. I had to get it to find my Grandmother's maiden name for as a child I asked "what her name was" and was told " Grandmama" I never dared asked again
Anne

No. Greatgrand father liked him but it meant that Hannah would have to go to London to live when he eventually gave his consent Henry was 26 and Hannah 21. Anne

Ah


according to the Giles and Wigley Family Public Tree on ancestry


Henry and Hannah Eleanor Wigley married 3 August 1901




sylvia

BUT


Henry E Smith was on the 1891 Census, with who RutlandBelle thought mught be mother Isabella remarried to Mr Dawson




and Henry was only 16 then



did he really marry Miss Wigley when he was 15 or 16????





sylvia

Hi Sylvia

Yes is is my Grandfather. He met my Grandmother Hannah Eleanor Wigley and they Married in 1890. He was then working for James Nelson Ltd where he eventually became a Director.

I am very lucky in the fact that Graham Giles has written a wonderful family tree " Giles and Wigley families of Kent " and has documented the Family fully, including the wills. Also the Medway Records have the City Ark where a lot of the church registers are on line

If only the Smiths were so easy!!

Anne

Thanks Dee

I realised that it would not be an easy problem.I had not come across freebmd before and will try and spend some of tomorrow looking for a Smith marriage. The trouble is that there are so many that I can't buy all the certs!!!!

Anne

???????? Henry in 1901??


1901 Census

Name: Henry E Smith
Age: 26
Estimated birth year: abt 1875
Relation: Visitor
Gender: Male
Where born: Liverpool, London, England

Civil parish: Rochester St Margaret
Ecclesiastical parish: St Peter
County/Island: Kent
Country: England

Registration district: Medway
Sub-registration district: Rochester and Chatham

George W Wigley 34 Trinity House Pilot
Mary L Wigley 35
Weaby A H Wigley 11
George M D Wigley 9
Gertrude E E Wigley 4
William C Wigley 2
Edith M Witchlow 22 Sister-in-law
Henry E Smith 26 Butcher's Clerk




sylvia