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Hi...I found Esther Wright married to William George Marsden 1866 JanFebMarch West Derby Lancashire 8B 556. This must be the one Neil has in his Tree. John and Elizabeth Marsden also had a son William born about 1855 married to Eliz and 2 daughters in 1901 so not him. sonya

I found an Esther Wright married to William George Marsden West Derby1866 8 b 556. In 1871 he is George Marsden a butcher in Salford with Esther and children. Birth given as Baslow age 26 .

I have just found out that George Marsden who ended up in Salford Lancs was born in BARLOW 1845.........nothing to do with your George Marsden born 1843 BASLOW................that was Neil's mistake..confusing Baslow with Barlow.......

I don't have the barlow records, but i am off to matlock in the next few days and hope to confirm what I say from the Records Office............

.........which means that your Tree is not yet ready for the BIN!!

Derek.

Thank you Derek. Hope you find what we are looking for. I ordered a marriage cert for William George Marsden and Esther Wright and that should give his parents I think. I am away 14th to 21st. Best wishes sonya.

Good morning Sonya..it will give his father certainly..but I think we have established that he is not your man...........

Have a good break.............I'll keep going!!

Derek.

Hi Derek,

Hope all is well.........hope you don't mind me bothering you again?

Am trying to confirm the parents of HERBERT NEAL, he was born about 1867 in Dalbury Lees and was married at Marchington on 28 December 1887 to ROSE HANNAH SOWTER (now she is an elusive character for another day !)

Herbert's marriage cert gives his father as William Neal, a labourer but I need to confirm his mothers name. Census records show mother as ANN......... possibly COLBOURNE? Sorry I have no idea when or where WILLIAM & ANN ? were married

Will be eternally grateful for any info you can find. :-D

Thank you
Susan

EDIT - Found marriage record for a William Neal, July 1857 at Derby. Don't know if this is correct one as seems to be another William Neal in Derbyshire but married to an EMMA.

Hello again Susan..always a pleasure to slave late into the night for you!! :-D..

WILLIAM NEAL married ANN(E) Colebourne at derby St Werbergh 26.08.1857...(Parish records)..confirmed by BMD's Civil registration Derby 3rd Qtr 1857

Ann Colbourne was baptised Mackworth 09.06.1834 daughter of Charles and Sarah..Family Search says John and Sarah..but as often happens..is wrong!.I have the Mackworth Parish records.......

(The other William Neal you mention married Emma Birkin in 1852)

HERBERT NEAL son of William and Ann was baptised at Dalbury 20.06.1867..one of seven children.the others were:-

John born Mackworth (baptised 18.10.1857.naughty parents!)
Elizabeth 1860 Dalbury
Sarah 1863 Langley
Grace 1865 Dalbury
HERBERT 1867 Dalbury
William 1869 Dalbury
George 1870 Dalbury.

I can probably get the baptisms dates for these if you want them

I'll go looking for Rose Hannah Sowter

:-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) :-) Derek

Susan..further to my message below.............

ROSE HANNAH SOWTER was born Burton on Trent 1872..daughter of WILLIAM SOWTER and ANN (possibly Bullock)...........she came from Uttoxeter and he came from Draycott in Clay..a village equidistant from Burton on trent and uttoxeter........there were several other children.
I don't know whether you are aware of it..but I have found a photo of Rose Hannah and her daughter Florence Neal........
She married HERBERT NEAL at Uttoxeter 01.12.1887

Night night!!!

Derek.

Hi Derek,
Thank you so much for the info on the Neal family.........I will take a good look at it later as I am just on my way out for a few hours.

Thought I would just send you a quick message as dont want you going off on a wild goose chase looking for Rose Hannah Sowter....it has taken me months to find what bits I now know......I am obviously not as "in the know" as you ;-)

Have got a copy marriage and death cert for Rose but can't find her birth in 1872......but I appear to have found her older brothers birth registration at Uttoxeter. (JOHN THOMAS SOWTER - April 1870 6b 351)

I have seen other trees with a mother, Ann Bullock I suspect that Rose's mother could be Ann Lewin ?
Will get back to you later and let you know why and confirm details I do have........hope thats ok,......dont want you to waste your precious time looking for something I may already know.

Many Thanks
Until later
Susan

Hi Derek......further to my last message
Information about William Neal and Ann Colbourne is wonderful, just what I was looking for....just knew you would come up trumps again...

Now as for ROSE HANNAH SOWTER......I will explain from the start what I know

I have a bible given to WILLIAM SOWTER (b1845) by his aunt Hannah. Unfortunately part of the page is missing although in the back of the book it does say HANNAH HOLMES born Uttoxeter March 14 1833. I feel sure this is aunt Hannah.

WILLIAM SOWTER (b 8 April 1845 at Marchington) was the son of WILLIAM SOWTER and MARY HOLMES. - William and Mary married 29 August 1842 at Hanbury, both are shown to be from Marchington and respective fathers are John Sowter, Plumber and John Holmes dec'd Shoemaker.

WILLIAM SOWTER (1845) married ANN LEWIN and their daughter was ROSE HANNAH born 1872. I got marriage cert for William and Ann Lewin, they were married July 1868 at the Independent Chapel, Uttoxeter. I have seen other trees showing Williams wife as Ann Bullock...........I need to confirm that I have the correct Ann by getting a copy of ROSE HANNAH'S birth cert but I can't find the civil registration.....2 of ROSE HANNAH'S siblings are listed in the back of the bible,
John William Sowter Born April 2 1870 & Mary Ann Sowter Born April 9 1875. ROSE'S birth date is listed as August 20 1872 or 1873, its not very clear.

I have found ROSES marriage to Herbert in 1887 at Marchington and her death in Polesworth, Warwickshire in 1936 aged 66 but something doesn't seem quite right. If Rose was born 1872/3 she would have been 14/15 years old when she was married to Herbert !!!!! It also seems odd that she was born in Burton while all her siblings were born in Draycott and that I can find her older brothers civil birth registration but not hers. Haven't ordered any cert for brother as not 100% sure its correct one.

Hope I haven't rambled on too much but thought it best I give you all the facts...Would really appreciate any info you can dig up on this one as its driving me mad.
You should already have access to my tree but I will send it again.

Counting on you Derek............lol :-D :-D :-D

Susan

Have you got access to photos of Rose Hannah Sowter and her daughter Florence Neal?

Hello Derek,
Do you have access to Derbyshire Electoral Rolls? I am interested in finding my grandmothers cousin who lived in Chatswood Rd Derby Derbyshire in 1911. I am looking to find them after that date. Any help would be greatly appreciated. thank You.
Regards,
Patricia.

Sorry Derek.....

I have copies of the pictures of Rose Hannah and daughter Florence Neal. They were kindly given to me by 2 relatives traced via A******y and GR the pictures were a wonderful bonus but sadly neither of them know anything about the family.

I really wish I had started this research earlier while I had still folks around to ask......still life is full of regrets........ but it doesn't change anything. :-(

Am looking forward to your valued input regarding ROSE HANNAH when you have some time to spare.

Many Thanks,
Regards
Susan

Good Evening Derek, Could you be so good as to see if you can find anything about these folk please ?

I have Sarah Louisa Maw born 1804, baptised I believe 26/4/1804 All Saints Derby. she married Peter Richardson born 1803 Derby . No date or place for this. I also have no information about neither sets of parents except perhaps their names.

Thomas Maw and Sarah Wood.

Peter Richardson and Sarah.

Also need to confirm that the son of Peter and Sarah Maw Joseph married a second wife Catherine Bickerdike, possibly Derby too.

Thank you :-D

Hi Gooner..juust had a quick look at this..initial findings.........confirming that...

Sarah Louisa Maw........entered as Louis only..baptised 26.04.1804 daughter of Thomas and Sarah............

Peter Richardson baptised 04.12.1803 son of Peter Richardson and Sarah...

will follow up the details, and the other bits tomorrow......

Derek.

Thanks Derek, I will look in tomorrow evening as we are out during the day <3

Hello again Gooner........you've set me up this time aint yer!!.......I have totally failed to find a second marriage for JOSEPH RICHARDSON son of Peter and Sarah who married 25.10.1826.

There are a number of curious things about many aspects of this.....first the wife of Peter Richardson is entered exclusivley as LOUISA..on her marriage record and on the 1841 Census.......Peter is a widower in 1851..and re-married to Mary by 1861.marriage to MARY GARNER 1853...he died September 1871 in Derby.

One recurrent factor is "Shoemaker"..what is it with you and Butchers and Shoemaker :-P..........Peter and his son Joseph were Shoemakers.......

Now then........PETER RICHARDSON baptised Derby 04.12.1803.....was the son of Peter and Sarah........have you got your Sarah's mixed up????? because there was a brother JOSEPH RICHARDSON baptised 05.08.1805 Derby..who also went on to be a Shoemaker..........and married a girl HANNAH, from..wait for it..Measham..and I have reason to believe that this Joseph went on to marry twice..as did his father........but can't yet prove it.

Back to JOSEPH 1837..starting as a Silk dresser..he went on to follow his father into the Shoemaking bizz..also called a Cordwainer..same thing. he married MARGARET from Kendal (born 1840)....he is shown living in the area in 1871...Margaret died in 1879....and I don't think they had any children....Joseph appears to be completely missing on the 1881..but reappears in Leeds in 1891 and 1901 .a shoemaker and married ?????? to Catherine..of this marriage, if it took place, there is no sign.

In 1891 there is a child aged 2..but also a STEPSON called Harry TERREY born 1886..we all know that the term "stepson" can cover a multitude of sins on the census..but there is no other explanation than that HARRY appears to be the daughter of Catherine Terr(e)y..............I have searched every possible combination of Bickerdike marriages and baptisms..and fond nothing appropriate........

because of the constant occurrence of the Shoemaker/Cordwainer profession..we've certainly got the right people.........but did he actually bother to marry Catherine??

You response to my blind groping through another of your famous morasses..would please me.

Hope you've had a good day out

Derek.





<3 <3

Thank you Derek we had a great time thanks. We went to an Art Deco Fair and spent a little more than we should have .

Not another Measham!!!! it is mighty strange as Meashams are my Dad's family and the Richardsons are my Mother's. Catherine married a Henry Terry 1874 Leeds Registry Office. and was widowed with one son Harry. I have talked to my cousin who seems to think that Catherine's parents are Matthew Bickerdike and Hannah Homer. They both come from Yorkshire and she also thinks Catherine was born in Thirsk so marriage was possibly in Yorkshire not Derby ???. Any further information on the Maw family would be most welcome if you have it please and also parents of Hannah Measham if you have them. Off up the wooden hill now as we are cream crackered. Thanks again and I'll peek in again tomorrow

Good morning Gooner.....first..if you read my posting PROPERLY!! :-P..you will see that Hannah was FROM Measham..not named Measham...probably my brain went at the very mention of the name!!..but in fact Measham and repton are very close...........I will follow Hannah up...

Just for information....

THOMAS MAW married SARAH WOOD at All Saints Derby 10.04.1798..they had the following children:-
Sarah 19.10.1799......not to be confused with you (Sarah \Loiuse.1804
John 16.03.1801
LOUISA....always Louisa in Baptism. marriage and Census entry..26.04.1804
Ann 20.11.1805
Elizabeth 17.06.1807
Charlotte 21.12.1808
Joseph 18.06.1814
William 03.02.1816..all at All saints Derby..all cna be followed up if they are of any great significance to you......

Now I'll go looking for hannah of Measham!!

Derek.

OK OK so it had been a long tiring day and I misread :-D :-D :-D :-D. The Meashams do that to me too. ;-). Thanks for these I will put the details onto the tree. Meant to say I am now in touch with my Dad's long lost half brother. Wait for it he is a Measham and what a lovely man he is.