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Hi Derek,

Mary Wood hopefully sorted. Now, William Stokes (did I say John in my PM? - it is William).

Born 1820-ish. Is not on any census for sure. Married Elizabeth (Betty) Sidebottom 25 July 1841 at Chapel en le Frith. Father John Stokes. Betty is born Glossop.

William's three children were born Glossop, though I only have the birth cert of the first, born 1842. The other two were born Mar Qtr 1846 and Sep Qtr 1847.

By 1851, Betty is a widow, so presumably William died between 1846 and 1851.

No possible death record on the GRO.

Next time you are in Matlock, can you look for the death of William Stokes, between 1841 and 1851.

Thanks...found your thread. Everything from 1871 is correct on my tree. As we do not know George Marsdens parents as no marriage cert. cannot say further back. Emma Storey family all ok. My tree is open so see what I have. All the past is from my mothers contact with Neil Marsden and his Marsden family tree. My mother is daughter of Robert Charles Marsden 1880 son of George. sonya

Sonya..once I saw your tree and saw the plethora of MARSDENs at BASLOW.....because I have the Baslow Parish records.....it all fell into place.......
So I can tell you that GEORGE MARSDEN was baptised at Baslow 1843..the swcond child of John Marsden and Elizabeth nee Singleton.who were married there 24.11.1840.
Unfortunately my Baptisms don't go any further than 1841..so apart from EDMUND 31.05.1841..I can't yet give you tha actual baptism dates for all the other children of John and Elizabeth

I was at matlock records Office on fridat..and had i had your enquiry then it would all have been on a plate..

I found John and Elizabeth's family on the 1851 and 1861 Census Records....and George is there..but he disappears on 1861 and 1871..and reappears 1881..1891..1901.

I found the baptism of Emma M Storey at St.Pancras london..agrreing with your tree..but nowhere can i find a marriage for her and George......and that includes ervy marriage regstry i have acces to..FreeBMD...London Marriages..Pallots Registers..and IGI...so I don't know what is going on there.

By the way the 1851 Census shows Dorah as David..but that id clearly a mistake from the original entry..a misreading....

There are things in the Baslow Registers that are not on your tree..the family of some of the ladies that married into the Marsdens.if at some time you want them.

So.I'm happy to give you the confirmation you asked for..

Derek.

Hello Margaret..been doing a bit of digging..and the reason you can't find WILLIAM STOKES on any census is that he died between 1846-1851...but there are three possible deaths 1846-ish.

The 1851 Census is interesting.in case you haven't already seen it

Betty Stokes..widow.aged 30 is head of household..living with her are the following:-
Mary Watkinson..widow aged 29..sister of Betty
Thomas Sidebottom unmarried aged 25 sister of Betty

plus children of William and Betty....James 1842 and Alice 1846

Betty is from Simmondley Glossop..and the are living at Whitfield...which is 1 mile south of Glossop Town hall

Betty is interesting..how much do you know about her?? .her two siblings Mary..02.12.1821 and Thomas 06.06.1824 are the children..I think!!..of William and Alice nee Howbrook who married 18.02.1806..I say i think becasue of the length of time between marriage and the two births..unless there were other children in between...........and the ine Betty Sidebottom I've found has a father heorge..and another is the illegitimate daughter of Ann (1823)

The only William Stokes i can find with a father Jhn is born Wsleyan methodist Belper 28.06.1815 son of John Stokes and Sarah nee Warrington......

more as and if i find it.

Derek

Hi Derek
I wonder if you can help me. Im interested in a Joseph Bradley (16.12.1858 - Alfreton Belper, County of Derby) He moved over to the north east and became my g granfather. However, his parents intrigue me. I believe that his parents are john bradley and Catherine Abbot. They were married in The parish church Ironville 24.12.1854. I am very interested in which other chidlrne they had. The reason i am intrigued is because in the 1871 census Catherine is the head of the family in sheffield and she has some saughters named Elizabeth, Clara and 'Ameria'. I cannot find any other trace of Ameria and her husband John Bradley is cited as a widow on the 1871 census yet his wife is alive and well voer there. I also ahve got no-where in finding John Bradley's parents other than his father was called GEORGE and he was a collier. I know that Catherines father was William and he was a moulder. Can you help?

Katy :-S

Hi Katy..this is a good one!!


JOHN BRADLEY married CATHERINE ABBOTT at ironville 17.12.1854..and you're quite right....John's Father was George Bradley (have got no further than that yet)..and catherine's father was William

1861 they have three children...Ann 1853..Fanny 1856 and JOSEPH 1859..all at Ironville..........John Bradley by the way was from Kimberley Notts.

Now then!! Catherine is alone with some kids, as you say..In Brightside Sheffield...with children Fanny and John from ironville.and Clara Ameria and Elizabeth born in Sheffield..........and she was indeed still married..becasue in !881 John and Catherine are back together again with two more children....Louisa 1871 Ironville (Codnor park) Derbys..and Thomas 1878 Sheffield.........

The conclusion is that John bradley was moving around with his work and returned periodically to impregnate his wife!!............

Now you asked about the parents of Catherine Abbott....one of whom was William.well..if you look at the 1881 Census..right at the bottom is ANN ABBOTT aged 73 Mother!!..i.e Catherine's mother...from Codnor park..i.e. Ironville..i.e Alfreton b.1808..so now you have her parents....which \i will follow up for you if you haven't the facility.

OK back to JOSEPH BRADLEY.. son of John and Catherine...baptised 16.12.1858 Ironville...

He married MARGARET McCAMLEY of Middlesborough (b.26.12.1865) at Stockton on tees in 1887..movingg between Middlesborough Linthorpe Yorks..and Stockton on Tees......they had the following children:-

Elija 1889
Catherine 1891
John 1893
Ellen 1897
Honora ellen 1900
Frances 1907-1992.......who married George William Brough in 1934 at Middlesborough..George William was born 26.07.1903..and died in 1967 at 16 Tarren Street Middlesbro.

I hope this is of some help.

EDITED MIDNIGHT MONDAY.........Catherine Abbott baptised 31.07.1836 daughter of William and Ann !!! night night!!
Derek.

Wow! Thanks Derek. This is the right family I am the granddaughter of Frances and George William Brough. THe interesting thing is that i cannot find any other record of 'Ameria Bradley' and on the census where she appears, her mother is cited as a widow! I unfortunately do not have the facilties to trace Catehrines parents William and Ann abbot so would be very grateful for anything you can help me with! I ahve also tried to track JOhn Bradley (cathereines husband) when he was a boy as he isnt living with his parents but there is a 16 year old work hand on a farm and another in the census before living with a woman who is running a pub! again, thank you so much :)

katy :)

Thank you for checking my Marsden records. My mother now 97 was desperate to have her lineage confirmed to John and Elizabeth so she will be pleased. Such a pity we cannot find a marriage to confirm it but cant think of any other way to look. I know a lot was lost in wars in London. I wonder where they would have married...at Emma Storeys Kentish Town church or where George was living.
I would like to complete my tree with the families of the Marsden wives please. Thank you Sonya

Katy....I think you're going to need the Parish records for thye birth of this mysterious lady..Amerca..Ameria......because I am convinced that the name we see is a mistranscription or simply a spelling mistake..because amongst all the possible Records to which i have access..except rhe 1871 Census..she simply does not exist.

I have actually looked at the 1871 Census for Sheffield Brightside in the Yorkshire Records..and she is shown as "A?Maria"...........bur she doesn't exist as Maria..or America...........so somebody has to be very clever and find a name that fits the clues!!

Unless you have access to the brightside Parish records..which I don't

What fun!!

Derek.

hi derek.
i was contacted the other day on my ancestry site. by a very distant cuz..
we are both looking at a dorothy rowland. but there seems two births for her. both in derbyshire one in st alkmund 1727 then the one i have 1772 breadsall. dorothy married thomas stapleton. in greasley nottinghamshire 1789. we would like to find out which birth is the real one. we think her dad was benjaim rowland and mary boswell. i have breadsall for fathers birth. none for mothers. would be really greatful for your help regards sally

sally..do you mean St Alkmund 1772 or 1727?????

hi derek yes st alkmund 1727. but think 1727 is far to early . i can not find her birth on ancestry. regards sally

Hello Sally...I am mystified.......I cannot see entries for any of these people

The only baptism i can find for Dorothy Rowland is 23.05.1722 daughter of John Rowland,,at St Alkmund Derby..but there are no marriages for Benjamin Rowlan..except 176 Tatenhill Staffs..

..and don't you think it odd that Dorothy born 1727..should wait till 1789 to get married????
There are no marraiges in the Derbyshire Phillimore indexes
I would be very grateful for your information and sources.
EDIT 20.05..and the Greasley Notts Marriage records do not include a marriage of Thomas Stapleton to Dorothy Rowland in the whole of the 18th Century......

Derek.

hi Derek.
i have been able to find dorothys marriage 1st oct 1798 greasley nottinghamshire. but now i'm at a loss as i really believed she was born in derbyshire in 1772. i will have to try find her else were cheers for your help sally

Sally..you said Gresley 1789..........not 1798!!

Thomas Stapleton married Dorothy Rowland at Greasley 01.10.1798..confirmed.....and a birth for Dorothy Rowland at Greasley c1777.....but the birth is a submitted one on IGI.....please be careful with typing your dates.
EDIT........she may have been born in Greasley..but her parents were definitely not married there..do you suppose she might have been illegitimate and unbaptised????..and have just found that they were both still alive on the 1841 Census..just the two of them kiving in Basford Nottingham
Ok. it's now gone midnight and I've been having a dig around....there are several trees on Ancestry.....and none of them can give parents for Dorothy Rowland, except one who give ohn Rowland and Sarah Miat..which is unsubstantiated.
The whole of the Thomas Stapleton story IS substantiated...he was baptised at greasley 13.07.1771 son of Timothy and harriet Stapleton (nee Wilcockson)..he nad Dorothy had at least seven children.

In 1841 they lived in Basford..within half a mile of where I live now

Thomas was buried 05.01.1844
Dorothy buried 09.12.1849........both at the Church of St.Leodigarius Basford....which I drive past at least a dozen times a week...don't ask!! because the graveyard was dug up and de-consecrated years ago.!!

The story of Dorothy Rowland differs slightly from tree t tree..one says she was baptised 23.05.1772.......other say anything between 1773 and 1777.....but nowhere are there any parents....one tree says she is buried in Roscommon Ireland..another says she was born in America....and another in derby.mmost say greasley or just Nottinghamshire..

I think i've done all i can Sally....it's a mystery but if you think I can help further ..just yell

Derek.

Hi Derek

Re the whereabouts of George Marsden in 1861 I did see a George Marsden working in a hotel in Lime St Liverpool as an Under Boots. Down as Age 26 though. You say he was not on 1871 census but I have him with Emma and two children (Sophia and Anne L.) in Portland Place Marylebone as a Carman. Also visitor Eliza Storey.

MORNING DEREK.
I'm sorry about the mistakes i made yesterday. but id been working on Dorothy Rowland all day. and by the time i got round to asking you for help. my typing was erratic. i was also talking to the cuz. who is also working on our Stapleton family. i have also looked at many trees on ancestry. thank you for the help you have given me. even though i confused you. i went to Bentick rd school. many years ago so know that area well. it dont look like we are going to find any more on Dorothy Rowland. oh well cheers any way Sally

Hello again Katy......I have the family of William Abbott for you:-

Catherine Abbott b 1836 was one of EIGHT children of William Abott and Ann nee Gilbert.

WILLIAM ABBOTT married ANN GILBERT at Pentrich 06.03.1826

Ann Gilbert was baptised 20.08.1807 daughter of William Gilbert (b circa 1777)..and Catherine (Kitty) nee Elliott..who married at Alfreton 07.02.1803

William Abbott was baptised at Ripley 02.12.1803 the son of John Abbott and Elizabeth Abbott BROUGH!!..yes Brough...but not related to GW....(who came from the Cumberland Broughs.)

William was one of four children of John and Elizabeth..and John was the son of Mark Abbott......

I have also investigated the family of George William Brough the husband of Frances Bradley..and have found photographs of he and his mother........but you probably already have these.if not , let me know......

Finally i have not yet found anything on George bradley father of John 1834..but I will!!

Derek.

thank you so much derek, you have helped so much!!! im not sure what to think about 'Ameria' as i cannot find a birth cert or anything! funny thing is, these sisters of his dissapear never to be heard of again, none of the family have heard of them!

kate x

i dont know if the pictures you have seen are the ones i have but i would be extremely grateful to see them derek :-D