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Good Morning Derek….

Sorry I have given you a bad un…...bet you will be relieved when I have finished my Derbyshire line !!!

Been trying for a while to confirm marriages of the BUCKNALL clan, without very much success…….
In 1901 father George was living at Hawkins Lane, Burton. He was a widower/boarder and was with SARAH Bale, his married daughter??

Your information about FANNY’S marriage to FRANK ATHERLEY seems solid. I have just looked at the 1911 census for the ATHERLEY FAMILY and coincidentally it lists SARAH BALE and her family as boarders…….married about 1899. Fanny and Sarah must be sisters !!

Also have just found a marriage for an EMMA BUCKNALL to EDWARD COOKE – 1886 in Burton, Qtr AMJ. This ties in with my ancestor Mary Ann so no worry about Emma….

Just WILLIAM, ALFRED & GEORGE left ………..

One tree I have seen shows ALFRED married to Alice Edith Smith but unconfirmed….possible marriage date calculated from 1911 census…..1889.

Many Thanks…….really appreciate your help.

Susan

Hello Dawn...........since you asked..here is an alternative.!! Maybe you are complicating things..maybe not.

Since we have more or less established that Snelston was in fact Shelton..which is hanley, Stoke on Trent.there is a perfectly good famil of Mountfords in Hanley Stoke on trent, that fits the bill:-

John 1810 and Mary1810..parents of the following:-

Emma 1841..SAMUEL 1843..Selena. 1848.............who appear on the 1851 and the 1861...and in 1871 only SAMUEL is missing.........could that be because he is recorded on the 1871 as married to a certain Isabella???

There are of course alternatives........Samuel Mountford born 1843 is in the Workhouse?Asylum in 1871...as an "IDIOT"....

There is Tree on Ancestry which is mainly the New Zealand story..is it yours??..which gives a father for Samuel Mountford as Samuel 1820 of Stafford.......I can't find him..

The only way to be sure is to get the Marriage certificate of Samuel and Isabella...........will show father's name and occupations........our lot..that is..your lot..were all "Potters"............I believe that is one of the reasons they went to NZ.

Derek.

Morning Derek!
Thanks for all the info. I am actually helping a friend here in NZ with this. No it isn't her on ancestry.
Yes I was wondering about getting the marriage cert for Samuel and Isabella. and yes Samuel and Isabella were married in 1869 and on the 1871 census. I know I have got marriage and birth certs hoping for a father, and found that a line is through the father!! annoying! but I guess if that was the case here, then the Samuel with Martha would be the one seeing that she puts herself as UM

Well we do know that the 'workhouse' one doesn't apply!!! They came over on the ship Waimate with a daughter born on ship and given a second name of Waimate! apparently it was a custom! a good one as it gives good info ie which ship and also knowing you have the right person!! That's how we were able to know the right Samuel that came out here!! as the 'Waimate' name was carried on to the next generation!
Strange that Samuel was put as a 'gardener' on death cert! maybe he had enough of potting!
Many thanks once again for all your help and advice
Dawn

Hi Dawn.the Marriage Certificate id crucial to getting the correct parents for him.....The Ancestry Tree is for a Mountney descendant in Otago......do you or your friend know her..or have access to Ancestry Private tress??? let me know....and I should be able to put you in touch with her.....

Derek.

Hello Derek. I hope all is well with you.

I have Enoch Cotterill born Little Chester 1856. Can you see if I am correct in he married Mary Spencer. I am sorry I have no date for this as yet. Also can you please see if you can find the names of his parents.

Many thanks as always

Hi Derek,

Would you mind checking to see if you can find a baptism for my gt gt grandfather
William Baldwin who was born in Derby in 1838. On his marriage certificate he gave his father's name as David Baldwin an ostler. On the1841 census he is with his mother Mary aged 35-'of independent means'. 1851 they are in the workhouse & Mary's age is 53. She died the following year,
I found a marriage for David Baldwin & Mary Warren (whose birth in 1799 fits the bill) in 1819 in Duffield. I can find James, Charlotte & John born to them but no William.
I'm wondering if he 'made up' David as his father!

Many thanks Maureen

Hi Gooner..........all is well!!.........ENOCH COTTERELL (note spelling)..maried MARY SPENCER at Derby AMJ1876......

Strange to relate, there is no record at all, anywhere that I can find, of Enoch..Cotterell or Cotterill..before 1881......

1881..1891 and 1901 Censuses have him in Derby wife Mary and up to four children (Cotterill)

I beieve mar Cotterill died in 1905.

Enoch was first a Wood Sawyer..then a labourer in a Woodyard..then in 1901 a licensed Victualler.

There is a newspaper report of his witnessing at a Coroners court over a fatal accdent at a Woodyard..
on 13.10.1897....he was granted the License to run the "Castle Fields Inn" Siddalls Road Derby......and on 31.12.1901..he relinquished that licence to one James Felts.............but I have nothing else..sorry.

I did look at your dreaded Measham enquiry..and failed to find a marriage..there were two possibilities, on which i was working when I was struck down most foully and murderously with illness!!..will get back to you on that one..

Derek.

Hello Maureen...........having some difficulty with this one......I can see very little reason why the Mary Baldwin of Independent means aged 35 in 1841..should be the Mary who married David Baldwin at Duffield 1819.............particularly as she as she appears to have been born 1806........though you cannot believe ages on Census returns.........

The marriage of David and Mary may have resulted in the birth of James 16.04.1824................but then a gap of 12 years???..to. John and Charlotte who died in 1837 and 1838 respectively?????

and where was David in 1841?..and why would a lady of Independent means..which in new money means well-healed!..end up in the Workhouse??

Atthis moment I don't have an answer..but I'll have a ferret around!!
Derek.

Thanks Derek, I had trouble with Cotterell.s too

Hi Derek

If possible can you please check the baptisms for a Samuel STREET b. circa 1777 Horsley Woodhouse for me.

Chrissy J

Good morning Chrissy.........I know you have been having a lot of difficulty with this one..and it seems it might continue............
........there is no Samuel Street in the Horsley Parish records........and furthermore there is no marriage for his possible parents.

The nearest I can get is 09.10.1774 at Wirksworth son of Samuel (mother's name only rarely given before about 1800...

Horsley is a tiny Parish in the Belper registration District..........Horsley Woodhouse is a mile or so away, and is a Civil Parish so there are no parish records...

I would be interested in who he married..and where....

Derek.

Thanks Derek,

I've been puzzling over this one for years! It takes fresh eyes to simetimes pick up on something that you have missed
Happy hunting

Maureen

Hi Derek my apologies I missed the reply in the thread.

Thank you so much for all of your work already.

Can I ask what should be my next step? I had come across Robert Lewtas Cartmell before but was not sure about him.

Danny

Hi Derek

I am sorry to here you have been in hospital ,I think I sent you my Boam line info on the 22nd June just as you went in.

I did go to Matlock with the plan of looking at St Michaels Derby records to see if there were any Boams born while they were living on St Michaels Lane. I think there was at least one child born out of wedlock and baptised Rose which would fit you theory if Williams grandchildren were named after his mother. Unfortunately someone had stollen the tape, maybe you could have a look forme when you have time.

Hope you are better now.

Thanks

Jo

Hi Derek

I am sorry to here you have been in hospital ,I think I sent you my Boam line info on the 22nd June just as you went in.

I did go to Matlock with the plan of looking at St Michaels Derby records to see if there were any Boams born while they were living on St Michaels Lane. I think there was at least one child born out of wedlock and baptised Rose which would fit you theory if Williams grandchildren were named after his mother. Unfortunately someone had stollen the tape, maybe you could have a look forme when you have time.

Hope you are better now.

Thanks

Jo

Hi Derek

I am sorry to here you have been in hospital ,I think I sent you my Boam line info on the 22nd June just as you went in.

I did go to Matlock with the plan of looking at St Michaels Derby records to see if there were any Boams born while they were living on St Michaels Lane. I think there was at least one child born out of wedlock and baptised Rose which would fit you theory if Williams grandchildren were named after his mother. Unfortunately someone had stollen the tape, maybe you could have a look for me when you have time.

Hope you are better now.

Thanks

Jo

Good morning Derek

I am happier with Samuel son of Samuel from Wirksworth 1774 rather than Samuel son of Henry and Sarah from Wignell 1778 :) I have nothing against Henry & Sarah it is just that their christian names do not appear in future generations !

Samuel STREET married Frances _______ surname unknown. Because Samuel was a soldier they could have married anywhere although after reading his military career it seems likely that he married in Ireland ?

Samuel joined the British Army on 25 October 1800. Records for the 38th Regiment state that he was a boatman, born in Buxton, Derbyshire. He was appointed serjeant of the 1st Battalion, 38th Foot on 21 March 1804. In late 1804 the 38th regiment were stationed in Ireland, at Birr and Galway. Samuel was a serjeant in Captain William Orange's Company but at this particular time he was member of one of three recruiting parties, two of which were in Ireland and one in Birmingham. In October 1805 the 38th regiment was at sea. Samuel was now listed as a serjeant in Capt Thomas Evan's Company. He was promoted to corporal on 25 June 1808 and then to quartermaster serjeant on 19 May 1824.
Samuel was in Europe with the regiment from 1812-1814. He spent time in Spain, Portugal and France before returning to Ireland in late 1814. He was ill from March to September 1813 when the regiment was based at Villarcayo in the northern Spanish region of Castilla y León. In 1814 he held the rank of colour-serjeant of his company while the regiment was stationed in France.
Samuel and his wife Frances (?-1827) were living with the regiment at Shorncliff, Kent when their son John Street (my ancestor) was born on 16 February 1810. When his younger brother William was born on 6 November 1811 the regiment was in Fermoy, Co. Cork.

Samuel STREET died at Rangoon, India in 1824 a casualty of the 1st Burma war.

Many thanks for your help
Chrissy

Hi again Derek, Dawn here! Now I know why I didn't pick up on the Samuel Mountford born in Staffordshire with the parents John and Mary, as I did see a message on ancestry from a Sue Mountford and she obviously had the marriage cert as she puts that on that cert of marriage to Isabella Oldacre that Samuel's father is Samuel and they are both put as potters! That lady must have a connection but I can't message her. There is also a mention of a 'Samuel Selway' as being one of the 'Samuel's names? This is why I picked up the Samuel with Martha as his mother another odd thing is that here in NZ he is put as a gardener but everything else fits so I know it is the right one here with the ship records and burial record!!

Hello Dawn..I can probably contact Sue Mountford for you..if she is still around on Ancestry.......watch this space.

Derek.

Hi Derek,
Samuel Mountford again! we decided to get his death certificate, (the NZ ones have heaps of info!) so he died 1914 age 75 been in NZ 49yrs. His parents are put as Samuel and Annie Mountford, maiden name just a line! birthplace Staffordshire. wife Isabella Oldacre and children it puts 2 females 1 male!

That actually as solved a problem! as Samuel and Isabella only had Lily! but Lily had 3 children Gordon, Percy and Mabel! then she married and had 3 more children. The ancestor Gordon has Samuel and Isabella as his parents on his marriage and death cert!
So the extra male and female on Samuel's death cert are Gordon and Mabel (Percy died age 3) and it seems Samuel and Isabella took them on! Sadly when Gordon got married Samuel, Isabella, Lily and his stepfather were all dead! which left 3 half siblings for Gordon to take care of!
So I have looked on censuses etc but haven't found Samuel either alone or with his parents!!! except the 1871 where he is with Isabella just before they leave for NZ!!!