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Mmmmmmmmmmmmm.....don't know about this one.....bear with me....

We have a marriage at Derby 1887 for Edwin Richardson to LOUISA HAYWOOD......but its not as simple as that, because of the following:-

1881 Census...Edwin Richardson single..a plumber..is lodging with his sister Caroline and her husband John Bale..who she married JAS 1878

1881 Derby Civil Registration of Births..OND 1881 birth of WILLIAM RICHARDSON.

This same William Richardson is shown on the 1891 and 1901 as son to Edwin and Louisa..along with Lillian born 1889

The 1911 Census says they only had one child together!!..and why is louisa suddenly and for the first time Louisa Agusta???

So who did Louisa have the child William with???

Either Louisa and Edwin had a long term relationship before marrying in 1887..or Louisa was previously married...but then why is William born 1881 registered...IN 1881! as a Richardson

There is only one Louisa Augusta married in derby 1880 -ish and that is a

Stevens..and not married to Richardson. I have failed to find an appropriate Louisa haywood prior to 1881

Have been trying to get a clue from Frederick Guest born 1897..who is on both 1901 and 1911 as a nephew....but I doubt this is any good, becasue the "nephew" would be a relationship with the head of household..and Edwin only had one sister..and she married a Bale..not a Guest.

The Birth Certificate for William Richardson would be very interesting..and would reveal the surname of the mother.....

Derek



:-S

Thanks for this Derek. I have been trying to work out William too since this reply. As you say birth cert could tell all. Also does the Jervis middle name on census mean anything I wonder

Hello Derek! I hope you are keeping well. I would be very grateful for your help again please! :-D

I gave up trying to find dear old Charlotte Bancroft 's illusive parents and have been researching my Castledines from Draycott and Wilne but although I am doing well and have staggered back to 1523 I have just noticed a glitch in my findings:

John Castledine was christened 18 Feb 1700 in Wilne.
He married Sarah Moor on 8th July 1725 in Wilne.
I have his potential parents as John Castledine (c 1667) and Mary Theobald (c 08 Feb 1671) both of Draycott.
They married in St Peter's Church in Derby on 01 Nov 1700 BUT this was 9 months AFTER John Castledine Jnr arrived. What do you reckon Derek? I can't find any other contenders for the role as this family did not move out of D&W for decades so it has been quite straightforward following their lines. Any help would be much appreciated. Anne :-)

Hello Anne..nice to hear from you again......"was just dropping off due to lack of traffic!!).......I don't think you need worry too much about a marriage taking place nine months after the birth of the first child.......a very common occurrence then as now!!..............I have all the children for John and Mary nee Theobald........as I'm sure you have...John is 1667..can't find the baptism..but apparently was at Wilne..Mary Theobald baptism Wilne 08.02.1671......I think you can safely accept the marriage 01.11.1700........in the bsence of any credible alternative.....

Just as a matter of interest..a SAMUEL CASTLEDINE married a MARY THEOBALD at Wilne in 1748............Samuel son of John and Mary???

Derek

Hi Derek,
Thank you so much! I thought it must be correct but wanted to check it out with the expert! :-)
I can't find a baptism date for John C (1667) either, but it says on the marriage records he was from Draycott too.
Yes Samuel Castledine - son of John and Mary did marry a Mary Theobald on 7th Feb 1748 in Wilne didn't he?!
It doesn't surprise me though - as nowadays I don't expect to find any of my ancestors having lived outside of Derbyshire (and I have unearthed hundreds of 'em!) and the same family names often crop up. I like to think of myself as having a good pedigree but my husband says I am just inbred :-S
TTYS,
Anne :-D

Hello Anne......I think the problem with 1667..in any Parish record....is the fact that most of it is illegible........... I personally believe that John Castedine is there somewhere, but nobody can decipher the entry.....I have spent hours at Matlock. trying to be really clever and deciphering early entries that nobody else can read..sadly I have been reduced to being merely mortal..like everybody else......

Take care.
Derek.

Oh dear Derek - well no-one can accuse you of not trying :-) I have been to Matlock and I even have trouble deciphering things that everyone else has no problems at all with, so I am still impressed.

Now then, I hope you won't mind but I am taking advantage of you having a quiet spell to ask another question :-D :

Tom Bailey born 1888 at Hucknall, Tokard, Nottm.
Christened 16th Sept 1888 Overseal, Derbys..
Mother - Harriet Bailey born 1862 Overseal, Derbys.
Grandparents - Thomas Bailey (1839) and Catherine Patrick (1832)
Wife - Emily .... (don't know maiden name)
Children - Lavinia 1909 and Thomas 1907

I am trying to find out who his father was? Harriet left him to be brought up by her parents in Overseal and didn't take him with her when she married Fred Ridgard with whom she had 6 more children.

Many thanks, Anne :-)

Hi Anne............I have found everything possible to find about Tom Bailey 1888..except his father.....

I think the attitude of Harriet in leaving her son to be brought up by her parents, is pretty self-explanatory. The baby was unwanted, and you have to take on board that she might not even have known who the father was, and if she did she made no attempt to stay with him.

The Birth certificate would almost certainly show "father unknown"..as would Tom's own Marriage Certificate of AMJ 1909 at Burton on Trent to EMILY ELIZABETH WEAVER. (Burton on Trent is the registration District for..amonng others..Overseal..where he lived.

Your age for Thomas is wrong..Lavinia was born OND 1909.and Thomas AMJ 1911

Derek

Hi Derek, Yes I assumed he was unwanted. Apparently his siblings knew of him but I don't think they ever met him. I only found out about his existence a few months ago. Oh well. Many thanks for looking for me and for finding Emily's maiden name and the correct age for Thomas. 'Tis all much appreciated, Anne :-)

Hello Derek, hoping you are well. Could you please take a look at these two for a friend. She would like to know the baptism dates.

Frances La Touche born about 1840

Catherine Maria La Touche born about 1843.

Both North Wingfield / Claycross she thinks.

Thank you

Hi LA........there is something slightly iffy about this information..either the information itself, or the transcription thereof......

First Frances 1840 North Wingfield..does not appear in the NW Parish records...neither does Catherine............but they were definiitely there at some point because the 1841 Census says so..only FRANCES is Francis aged 10 months..son of John and Anne LaTouche.

John Latouche was from Birmingham (originally Ireland) and his wife Anne (nee Wakefield) from Uttoxeter......

The only child that DOES appear in the NW Registers is SARAH ANN LATOUCHE baptised 06.07.1845 daughter of John and Anne.....but buried 26.08.1845......

1851 has John and Anne..with FOUR children living in Aston Birmingham

Frances (Fanny) Lydia JAS 1840 Derby
Catherine maria 1843 Derby
Mary Jane Maria 1847 Derby
Michael William Maria 1851

John LaTouche married Anne Wakefield OND 1839 Derby

I don't yet have the baptisms..but the Births are Civil registrations recorded at Civil registration Areas............you'll see that Frances is registered at Derby..had she in fact been born at North Wingfield or Ashover..her birth would have been registered at Chesterfield.. not Derby.

Oh..the Francis of 1841 is definitely the Fanny Lydia of 1851......she married into a very large PREES family.......

Derek.

Thanks Derek I will pass this onto my friend.

Seeking a Thomas Towell supposedly baptised at Sawley Parish Church, Derbyshire, 1750. Incumbent informed me records kept at Matlock County Offices
A journey there revealed no such event took place after a thorough search of the Sawley Parish Records. Original information obtained from I.G.I.
Your address passed on by +++DetEcTive+++
I have been seeking this 1750 Thomas for a considerable length of time. He did exist and passed away age 73 in 1823 at Boston. I would not be here if he had not existed. Caldervale

Hello Caldervale...............first, you have to be very wary of IGI results....there IS a Thomas Towell b. 1750 Sawley..son of Joseph and Mary........but since there is no date, and no support evidence in the Parish records.......I would be tempted to reject this "evidence".


You say that Thomas Towell died in Boston Lincolnshire in 1823?????????...well he certainly did.......20.02.1823 to be precise.......BUT he was born lived and died in Lincolnshire...........could this be the reason that your "event" in Sawley 1750 didn't take place?

How sure are you this guy who died in Boston 1823 is in fact your ancestor??

Thomas Towell..allegedly baptised Freiston 16.04.1750....married Deborah Handsley 13.05.1783...........had two children John 23.08.1783 and Thomas 02.01.1787..and died 20.02.1823.............all in Lincolnshire............and I have found further details about this family.......you are clearly directly related to a Thomas Towell 1750..........if I have the right family here..then they will appear somewhere in your family history.


If you want to give me more information..I can look more deeply into this...

Derek.

Hi Derek

I am off to Matlock tomorrow and you look like an expert on parish records so I wondered if I could pick your brains.
My husbands family name is Boam. I have traced them back to William Boam c1809 born St Werburges Derby. I have look for his birth in the records but not had any luck. Later the family moved to the St Michele's area of Derby but no luck in that record either. Can you suggest the most likely records if not St Werburges. I have this information from his army record of 1826 when he signed up and went of to the west indies and north America before returning married to a woman from Tipperary and their fist child was born 1848 in Stockport ( Ann) supposedly . In 1851 they are living in Spondon and have 3 children . I have seen the records of the younger 2 born in Spondon but they don’t help.

Thanks

Jo Boam

Hello Jo........the first bit of advice I have for you is NOT to go to Matlock...until you know Precisely what you're looking for.

Yes. I AM an expert..and i say that without any arrogance ..but simply so that you will accept the advice of someone who has many times experienced the sense of frustration and wasted time you will suffer fro not knowing where to look amongst the morass of possible resources............and that is in soite of the marvellous help you will get from a very good team in the records Office at Matlock.............It's just a nightmare unless you know exactly what to look for and where to look...........Derby for instance has at least 12 separate Parishes..AT LEAST!!..each with a separate set of Parish records....

What I suggest you do is hold fire, and see if we can't get something specific to look for.......

OK...........William Boam CIRCA 1809...how "Circa"..?????..and what else do you know about him that will help...........BOAM is a very common Derbyshire name........and I have met various branches of that name on many occasion.....

Here is a nugget of information that may or may not be what you're looking for.........at least its a start.........bear in mind that dates on early 19th century records or hit an mss..unless they are the ORIGINAL Parish Records..which are in strict chronological order..also that Parish Records give BAPTISMS..not Births....there are so many late and adult Baptisms you wouldn't believe........

so peruse the following:-

WILLIAM BOAM baptised Derby St.Werbergh 13.06.1813 son of George and Rose.........could easily have been BORN in 1809...all records that i have found put his birth at 1810

Lesson over..for now!! let me know what you think!
EDIT....whom did he marry and when and where????? his marrage cert would give you his parents.....1851 Census..three children???? I have two..Ann 1847 and Elizabeth 1850.....the mother's name is JANE, and she is 13 years younger than her husband William............nice work if you can get it !!

further Edit..have found William and Jane at Bridge Gate Court St Alkmund Derby..with seven children..including Ann(ie) and Elizabeth...I'm beginning to think that the baptism 1813 St Werbergh is in fact the right one......


Derek.

Hello Derek
http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread1191073DerbyshireParishRecords has been passed to me from+++DETect+++. Briefly I seek Thomas Towell born 1750. I found reference via I.G.I. which gave his birth 1750 at Sawley Parish Church. Derbyshire. This church was only 5 minutes walk from home at the time. The incumbent informed me all records had been sent to the County Archives
Matlock. A visit there drew a blank. No such record in the Sawley Registers 1750. A Thomas Towell existed 1750 Lincolnshire. Family traced with leads to own family
Question; Was Thomas 1750 actually born in Sawley. I have official proof via a
Examination of John Towell 1786 son of Thomas (John names his father as Thomas in his Examination) "Quote who then lived at Butterwick" Date & place of Examination, Upton by Southwell, Nottinghamshire, 1812. John had moved from
Lincolnshire into Nottinghamshire. He was a wheelwright. I did find other names who had moved from Sawley to Lincolnshire. Been seeking Thomas 1750 actual origins for 20 years believe it or not! That Examination of his son John was very much informative. Limited space here for all of it. Incidentally the walking time to Sawley church has increased to 20 minutes with moving to present address.
Comments appreciated.

Caldervale.......I refer you to my answer which lies below your repeated message..which I would ask you to delete......

Derek

Hi Derek
I have compiled my info as below

William Boam first enlisted in 69th Regiment of Foot on 2nd June 1826 aged 17 and was classed as underage. He began service on 2nd June 1827 which leads me to believe that he did not know his date of birth so they kept him a full year to be sure he was 18. Born St Werburges 5ft 4 ¾ inc Grey eyes, Fresh complexion.
West Indies 24th Dec 1831 to 14th March 1839.
N America 15th March 1839 to 16th Feb 1842.
So he will not be on the 1841 census in England.
“There the regiment continued to fight in the Maratha Wars until 1826 before being switched to garrison duty in England, the West Indies and Canada.”
This is where they were:-
Oct 1842: New Brunswick; Fermoy
Nov 1842: Fermoy
Dec 1842 to May 1843: Dublin
June to Oct 1843: Mullingar
Nov 1843 to May 1844: Castlebar
Jan to April 1845: Templemore ( This is in Tipperary )
May to July 1845: Canterbury
Jan 1846: Weedon
Feb to April 1846: Leeds
Aug 1846: Newcastle-on-Tyne
Sep to Nov 1846: Manchester
Dec 1846 to Aug 1847: Bury
Jan 1848: 1st & 2nd Batt at Malta
He was discharged on 17th May 1948 in Isle of Man and returned to Chatham for a medical report 14th June 1848 which found him unfit for the duties of a soldier due to chronic pneumonic disease finally discharged 14th July 1848

I have a marriage record in Ireland ROSCREA Tipperary
William Bohann and Jane Thomas 25-Jan-1845
Roman Catholic No address or parents listed.
Witness 1 William Power Witness 2 Cathy Dunphy

I also found a Baptism record for Jane Thomas 25-Jan 1825 ROSCREA Tipparay Roman Catholic
Father Jame Thomas Mother Mary Dunphy

Witness James Donnally , Catty Dunphy

I sent for Elizabeth Boam c1850 birth cert and mother’s maiden name is Thomas.
There is an Ann Boam born Manchester 1846 which would fit but the certificate won’t tell me anymore than I already know.

1851
Moor St Spondon
William Boam Mar 41 Chelsea Pensioner Derby St Werburges
Jane Boam Mar 28 Ireland
Ann Baom Dau 4 Sch Stockport
Elizabeth Boam Dau 8mth Spondon

1861
78 Nunns Street
William Boam Head Mar 36 Derby
Jane Boam Wife Mar 26 Ireland Dublin
Eliza Dau 3 Derby
Elizabeth Dau 10 Derbyshire Spondon
Mary Dau 8 Derbyshire Spondon
James Son un 1m Derby
Rebecca Robinson Lodger W 59 Derby (Life Dpndt on Property
Ann Boam Dau 14 Staffodshire Stockport

1871
William Boam Mar 60 Derbyshire
Jane Boam Mar 40 Tipperary Ireland
Annie Boam Mar 24 Stackjarb Cheshire( Stockport)
Elizabeth Boam Unm 20 Spondon
Eliza Boam Unm 14 Derbyshire
James Boam 11 Derbyshire
Jane Boam 7 Derbyshire
John Boam 2 Derbyshire
James Boam 5 Derbyshire ( could be Jesse)Next on the census
Selina Ward Wid 40 Edneston ( Mary Boams Mother-in-Law)
Sarah J Ward Dau 10 Birmingham

Death Cert 5th Dec 1878 William Boam Labour Bronchitis age 71 years present Jane Boam wife.

1881
2 St Michaels Lane 11 Court
Jane Boam 40 Ireland
Elizabeth Boam 23 Spondon
Jane Boam 16 Derbyshire
Eliza Boam 21 Derbyshire
James Boam 10 Derbyshire
William Boam 12 Derbyshire

1891
St Michaels Lane
They do not come up if you search for the name Boam but I found them by search for Charles Brooks c 1846 Fishmonger who also lives on St Micheals Lane and then looked on the next pages. Unable to do this now on Genes and the census image I stored won’t open.

1901
4 Smiths Yard Orchard Street
Jane Boam Wid 66 Ireland
James Boam S 38 Derby Bricklayers Labourer
Jane Boam S 34 Derby

Death Record Jane Boam Derby 1903 age 71 (1832)

As for George and Rose they were having Mary baptised in 1809 so I had discounted them. Also they never named a child George or Rose.

Your thoughts are welcome.

Jo

hello Derek

hope your keeping well

sally w <3