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Hey Gooner........European qualification assured!!..unfortunately Shardlow Civil Regustration AMJ 1905 gives Willoughby T F Measham as marrying either:-

Ada Madeline James or Hannah Elizabeth Gunnell. no mention of lilian......1911 does show him with "Lillian".......but she is from Lincolnshire........

I'll look into it.............

Derek.

Thanks Derek

Morning LA.............I misread one of the marriages..should be Hannah Elizabeth Gunnell.
You know me..don't like to fail.......so I've had a shufti around.......

Lillian..who I cannot find..came from Astbery Lincolnshire..so I went off on a limb..........and found that Hannah Gunnell also came from Astbery Lincolnshire...which is too much of a co-incidence....

So here is what i think. IF WTF Measham did marry Lillian..then the Shardlow Register has made a big mistake.and has entered Hannah rather than Lillian...ie.Lillian's mother, or even grandmother instaed of the Bride......
I am guessing that Lillian's maiden name was Gunnell......but I still can't find her!!

Derek.

Thanks Derek , a little more digging then methinks. That's my evening sorted :-D

derek
i have been on familysearch and come across this
ann baptism 26 aug 1821 at dead lane primitive methodist
parents william and honor spittle

so do you think they might have had there name as spittle instead of spittlehouse
please let me know what you think
lorraine

Hello Lorraine.........I can't find the baptism........but I think it is unlikely that William and Honour..having has two perfectly good children..Elizabeth 1810..and Matilda 1813 in the Anglican Church at Barrow...should suddenly pop up eight years later at a Primitive Methodist Church in Loughboorough..and the records for which appear to start in 1828.....

Do you know anything more about this Ann Spittle 1921??
EDIT....have now found the Baptism.........very strange..............

Derek.

hi derek
no dont know anything about ann 1821 it was just funny that parents were william and honour
i was just trying to find anything i could about this family
and i dont even knon weather there daughter born /baptisted was eliza or elizabeth
the baptism i found was eliza

anyway think i might have to do other family and leave this one alone

thank you for any help so far
but i will be back

lorraine

Hello again Lorraine............don't worry about the "problem" with Eliza/Elizabeth..its the same name..and its Elizabeth in the original Parish records and Eliza on Family Search........

Derek

hi derek
well that changes things then so elizabeth it is so will follow that up now

so ok more litherlands for you
mary litherland b 1793
elizabeth b 1794
so can we work out who they married

and burials
sarah litherland nee mounteney]
i think she is in the 1841 census with frederick lockwood [her grandson]
and a burial for william lockwood who married harriett litherland
she was a widow in 1841 census

would you please have a look for me
you are a very nice man

take care
lorraine

Good morning Lorraine..........SARAH MOUNTNEY born 1764 daughter of John and Sarah Mountney..married JOHN LITHERLAND 24.10.1784..and was buried 15.10.1845 aged 81..

The children of Jon Litherland and saran nee Mountney were:---
64 Sarah died 03.091843
Baptism dates....

John 04.02.1785 (who mysteriously becomes William)
Thomas 03.06.1787..died infant
Thomas 07.06.1789..married Esther........
Honour 20.06.1791..married William Spittlehouse 06.11.1809
MARY 09.04.1793..
ELIZABETH 23.11.1794.
Harriet 20.06.1797..married William Lockwood 10.10.1823
George 18.06.1801..married Sarah Ward 1.11.1821..George buried dies 1864 and Sarah died 03.09.1843

I'll go looking for those marriages now

Derek .(thankyou for the compliment)

hi derek
i said you were a very nice man [and you have helped me again ]

take care and thank you
lorraine

Lorraine..I had occasion to ask Wendy for help on an unrelated matter..and saw your enguiry about THOMAS LOCKWOD m 1875.......so, since i am in possession of all you need at Barrow on Soar..and hopefully not upsetting wendy..here is what i have found......

Thomas Lockwood baptised Barrow upon Soar 18.07.1832..son of William Lockwood and Harriet nee Litherland .married at Barrow..married Mary C Cheetham 1875 Nottingham.................which of course you were hoping for!!
(Which Wendy has now proved to be wrong!!!!)
Now then....Mary C Cheetham from Bilston Staffs..brought five children to that marriage...look at Thomas Lockwood 1833 Barrow upon Soar 1881 Census...so clearly this was her second marriage..so now I'll go looking for her first!!

Incidentally, her firstborn child ANNIE CHEETHAM was allegedly born at Barrow upon Soar 1864..but can't find her yet.........and Mary had been around a bit by 1881!!

Derek.

Hi Derek,

No you are not upsetting me the marriage of Thomas Lockwood and Mary Cheetham was at St Barnabas, Thomas was the son of a William and Mary was the daughter of Thomas Perkins as it a Roman Catholic marriage they it does have full details so have advised Lorraine that it may be best to get a certificate from the register's office.

Hope this helps with your research for Lorraine too.

Wendy

Hello Derek.
Re my query of 7th May regarding Mabel and Annie Allen. Did you not have any information on them. I had hoped you would have information on a baptism for Mabel, and hopefully a marriage for Annie.
No problem if you can-not find anything.

Regards Eileen

Hello Eileen..so sorry to miss you out..in fact I did work on this, and then chaotic paperwork got in the way!!.........sorry.

Ok.......Mabel aged 1 is shown as daughter..this usually refrs to a relationship to the Head of the family...i.e James.............but in this case......it appears to contradict the norm........

Here si a baptism for you to ponder..........

MABEL ALLEN baptised Holy Trinity Chesterfield 29.04.1890.....daughter of........ANNIE.......!!!!.....unmarried....naughty girl!!.

Derek.

Derek.
Thank you so much you have confirmed what I believed, Mabel was the daughter of Annie NOT James.
I have found a marriage in 1893 for Annie to Joseph Thompson. I will order marriage certificate to confirm.
1901 census Annie, Joseph daughter Mabel and their other children are are living Dingle Bank.
Mabel's age does not tally with date of birth (but I think that could be a hiccup)
Annies brother and family are visiting and those ages tie in.
So again thank you so much.
Best Regards Eileen

Hi Derek,

I wonder if you can help ?

I have a Albert John Butcher b 1891 family says born in DERBY.....They could be all wrong !!

As there are NO such name on BMD for that year in DERBY the only entry that fits his birth for his name is for BATH.

He married in Reading to Edith Daisy Pocock 1920.

So Its probably a needle in the haystack for you as no one knows anything about him apart from his name and age & a marriage entry.....Cant find a Baptism on FMP or any other web site.

But a marriage cert is about to be ordered so as to go further back in line.

If it means you have to look endlessly .........give up !! I'll understand :-D

Just trying my luck... Thanks Marilyn ..

Hello Marilyn...........way outside my territory, but I love a challenge!!!

Firstly..what makes you think he married in 1920 at Reading??...if your marriage certificate gives parents that support it..then well and good................but since i'm in a lateral thinking mood, i have a different scenario for you:-

The BUTCHER family were from Twerton Somerset..and right through to and including 1911 never got any further away than Weston super Mare...

What might confuse inexperienced researcher is the fact that Twerton is mistranscribed as TIVERTON on several Censuses......Tiverton is in Devon not Somerset..so a clerical error.

Twerton is a suburb of BATH....and Twerton Park is the home of Bath City Footbal Club..and is where ALBERT JOHN BUTCHER was born in 1891

I don't have parish records for these people, but they all can be found on various BMD's

Albert John Butcher 1891 was the son of Walter J S Butcher..a licensed Victualler, beer House keeper and grocer..and of JULIA Butcher nee BUTLER, from Box in Wiltshire (next County)...who were married at Chippenham Wiltshire aMJ1876............there were four other children, and to cut a long story short most of them, including Albert John..were still together on the 1911 census...on which Albert John is an Architect's Assistant

The full hstory of Walter Butcher can be traced from his Birth in 1854..(son of JOHN BUTCHER 1832 and ELIZABETH JEMIMA nee BICKLE1831) who married at bath JAS 1853............and even back before that if you want it....

Now then..supposing we have the right man.......the reason why i offer you an alternative marriage thus:-

ALBERT JOHN BUTCHER married Ellen Jones BUTLER at Clutton Somerset OND 1923..........but this might be a co-incidence that the name Butler is his mother's maiden name...and Clutton being so close to Bath...

Would be interested to hear your response to this!!

Derek.

In addition to my message below........the only other ALBERT J BUTCHER 1891 I can find is one in Eltham son of Edward and Mercy..(Edward was a Police Sergeant)...but this is not specifically Albert John........

Derek

Hi Derek....
Wow I never expected you to go through all that research ...

This is my sisters neighbours Family, she has it that Albert John Butcher married Edith Daisy Pocock 1920 in Reading .They had 3 children Reginald Arthur Butcher b 1924 Reading , her (husbands grandfather) also Edith Mary Butcher b1921 Reading & Alfred TH Butcher b 1923 Reading.

This Albert John Butcher b1891 ? left Edith Daisy his wife when the children were tots !! then the mother died in 1926so the grand parents bought them up (.Pocock Grandma & Grandpa.)

No one knew his whereabouts a family has feeling he was in the Army.

But its the marriage certificate that will reveal ALL.

So we can only wait and see .......but if it is the Albert from Bath maybe you have enlightened us on the rest of the family.

I'll let you know Derek any news on this marriage Cert
Thank you very much your very kind.

Marilyn ......



:-D