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Hi Derek,

Hope your feeling better. I don't know whether your going to be able to help me or not, as part of this family come from Shropshire. I'm after the parents of Isaac Martin b.1850/1851 in Donnington, Lilleshall, Shropshire. He married Frances Elizabeth Sprinthall b 1856 derby, in 1875 in Derby.
I'm hoping from the Parish Records you'll be able to tell me who is father was. I have conflicting information off people on Ancestry that it could be John and Mary or Isaac and Ellen.

Thank you in anticipation.

Julie

Hello Julie............I don't have the full Shropshire records........but I think you can be pretty sure that the parents are JOHN and MARY.......simply because there is no sign of an Isaac and Ellen..either on the 1851 Census or on IGI coverge of Lilleshall/Donnington............(Donnington is in the Parish of Lilleshall)..both are on the outskirts of Wellington.

You can confirm the parents if you know of the other siblings..they are on the 1851 Census as Mary/James/William/Moses/ and Isaac......sadly they are not complete..becasue John and Mary lost three of their children before the 1851...for your information i offer the following:

John and mary martin married 1832 Shropshire

Maria..(Mary) baptised 17.02.1841
James 11.08.1844
Moses 22.05.1848
Isaac December 1850 (he is on the 1861 and 1871 with his widowed mother Mary)
William 1847......and..sadly:-

Eliza baptised 22.01.1837..died 03.06.1838
John 14.08.1842..died 12.01.1847
Aaron 22.05.1848 died 09.08.1848...

There was only one other Issac Martin born in the area...1851 son of James and Sarah.

hope this helps.

Derek.

Hello Derek
Thank you for confirming that for me. I just had a birth certificate through this morning to say Isaac's parents were a John and Mary. I don't have a clue where the people on Ancestry got their info from, but it did make me doubt myself. I knew if you had any info you would be able to put my mind at rest.
Thank you

Julie

Hi Derek,sorry to be a pain in the neck,but I was wondering if you have got anything for me on the Shipleys and Blackburns. I am going away on Friday for a few weeks and I just wanted to do what I could before I go. Best regards, Sandie. :-

Hi Derek........
Hope you are now feeling much better.:-D

When you are up to it could you take a look for a baptism for me.?

I have been trying to find the civil registration for sometime for my 2 x great grandma, ROSE HANNAH SOWTER. I put a request on the general thread and have a reply giving a potential christening. Could you have a look for me if you have the time and are feeling well enough.

Am looking for any additional information on the baptism of ROSANNA SUTER which took place at Burton on 4 Sept 1872........Date of birth would be wonderful.........I can but hope cant I ?

Original request - http://www.genesreunited.co.uk/boards/board/ancestors/thread/1317205

Many Thanks
Susan

PS: no rush Derek only when you feel ok
:-)

Hello Susan...you have more than a problem here!!

The baptism of Rosanna Suter was at Burton on Trent 04.09.1872..daughter of William and Ann.she is without doubt the same person who appears as Rose hannah Sowter on the 1881..with her siblings..daughter of William and Ann....

parents are from Draycott in the Clay and Rose is the only one of the children born in burton.

Ok..Draycott is in Stsffs...Burton is in derbys.........but in 1872 Burton was in Staffs hence the baptism information is from Staffs not Derbys..and you'd get a date of Birth from the birth Cetificate..which would be issued by Lichfield..NOT Burton on Trent.
You would also get a father's name (William) and his occupation..which you could cross check on the 1881...and that would solve all your problems.......

I see Reggie mentions a tree on Ancestry..which may or may not be accurate..but I should not put too much store in the photograph there being Rose hannah Sowter........any old faded 19th century photo could be of anyone......I've caught several people out.......these are the name gatherers who think it is great to have 25.000 "relatives", and who will steal other people's trees on the flimsiest of "evidence".

Anyway.......I am convince that Rose Hannah and Rosanna are the same person......and you should be looking in Staffordshire rather than Derbyshire.........though it must be said, I cannot find the Civil Registration in either place........Civil registration was not yet compulsory..and does not imply illegitimacy..indeed Rose Hannah had a perfectly good parentage.

Hope this helps.
EDIT 22.25...............The census for 1881 shows ANN as William's wife.....and Ancestry trees have her a Ann Lewin?..with the question mark.............William married Ann lewin at Uttoxeter 1870........which is Ok........Draycott in the Clay..is in the Uttoxeter registration District of Staffs.

Derek.

Hiya Derek, m'duck.

Wondering if you have the baptisms of these 2 children and if their parents are John Henry Mellors and Annie:

Alice MELLORS born c1898
Ernest MELLORS born c1902

I have found 2 burials in FreeReg at St Thomas, BRAMPTON.

In 1911 John Henry and Annie are living apart. John in Mansfield, telling porkies about his marital status and place of birth. Annie is living with his brother, William, in Chesterfield. In 1911 Census Annie says 4 children have died. Since there are so many possibilities, I would appreciate knowing it these 2 are part of my MELLORS clan or not.

Thanks in anticipation.
Joy

Hi Derek

Thank you as always for your prompt reply and help.........this one is driving me mad as I cant find the civil registration for Rose Hannah or Rosanna, perhaps Reggie is correct and the family didn’t think a daughter was worth the expense. Am not sure when in 1875 compulsory registration came into force but younger sister Mary Ann was registered April 1875 in Uttoxeter and older brother John William registered 1870 in Uttoxeter.

Have worked backwards and have copy certs for William and Mary Holmes......marriage in 1842 at Hanbury and birth cert for William born 1845.

William 1845 married Ann Lewin on 26 July 1868 at Uttoxeter, at the Independant chapel. (non-conformist, Methodist I assume) They were both from Draycott. Their daughter........

Rose (Rosanna, Rosehannah or whatever) was born 1872/3 (writing not clear) and married Herbert Neal at Marchington 1887, she died at Polesworth in 1936 and according to memorial in churchyard was 66. This doesn’t make birth date 1872/3 but 1770 same as brother John William........perhaps twins and could only afford to register one birth??? However, seems odd that she was only child born in Burton and rest in Draycott where family lived. Did cross my mind that perhaps Rose was adopted and raised as William and Anns child as in 1901 and 1911 William and Ann had two different nurse children but without birth cert can’t confirm anything!!!

Rose and Herbert Neals daughter was married to my great grandfather in 1907.

I am absolutely sure I have the correct family as the first three children of
William and Ann shown on the 1881 match those in the bible passed down to me. Unfortunately the childrens names and birth dates stop with Mary Ann in 1875. the bible was originally given to William Sowter born 1845 son of William and Mary by his Aunt Hannah (Holmes)

Have managed to trace a cousin through a......y who gave me a copy of the picture of Rose. Our great grandparents were half siblings. This family gets better and better doesn’t it ??

Any help or advice you could offer Derek would be wonderful, BUT no pressure. Take it easy.

Susan

Hello Derek,

I hope that you are feeling much better now and have been able to enjoy the New Year so far as well as a few medicinal whiskies ?? :)

When you have a spare moment and feel up to it would you mind having a look at the following for me please?

I am trying to pin down once and for all the Pakeman/Gregson (oh yes those Lusty ones lol) and need to confirm if there is another child from my particular branches union.

What I have so far is -

Charles Pakeman bn c 1774 Sutton on the Hill married Mary Gregson chr 1773 Longford, at SOTH on 25th Sept 1794. I believe that they had the following children -
William chr 1795
Charles bn 1797
James bn and died 1800
Dorothy chr 1801

The one that I am unsure about is a possible sibling Ann. I have found one but her parents are noted as Francis and Sarah (Phillips - and that's a new can of worms that I'm not opening just yet !)

Would you mind checking your records to see if you can locate a record of another daughter for Charles and Mary?

Once again thank you for all your help.

Take care

Barbara

Hello Joy..I don't know if this is going to be any help.......I have the brampton St Thomas registers, and the two burials are there, the only real clue is that the ages at death are there.......

Alice Mellors buried 17.04 1900.aged 20 months (b October 1898?)
Ernest Mellors buried 27.09.1902 aged 8 months. (b. late 1901-Jan 1902)

I have a Civil registration for an Alice Mellors OND 1898.....

I have a Civil Registration for the death of Ernest Sept 1902....but mentioned on that entry is a Birth C.1902........which probably means his Birth was not registered.........

The only Alice Mellors I can find on the 1901 Census is still alive on the 1911 census......

I have found John and Annie Mellors in 1901 with children William Henry 1897 and Wilfred 1899 (in the Brampton Records as born 02.12.1899 baptised 10.01.1900 as Wilfred Arthur..but son of John and BERTHA !!!)

So..I have not found any link confirming parents as John and Annie......but its not impossible, becasue although William Henry and Wilfred appear on the 1901..this does not rule out Alice..dead before 1901...or Ernest born and died 1902......

I believe Annie to be Annie Kirkland????

Derek.

Hello Barbara..I think you're chasing shadows.there is only one ANN PAKEMAN that fits bang in the middle of your time frame..baptised 15.01.1798....but daughter of William and Ann......so i don't think Charles and mary had a daughter called Ann.
.......the other one you mention is ANNE not Ann

Derek.

Correct Derek, Annie is Annie Kirkland and she was a very naughty lady. Had at least one child by John's brother, William, according to my uncle.

Wilfred's full name is Wilfred William Benjamin Mellors.

Thanks for having a look, guess I'll have to get birth certs to be sure. Beggar it!!!

Joy..1901 has both Wildred William and William Henry as children ofJohn and Annie..there is no reason at all why Alice and Ernest shouldn't slot in as well....as you say...Certs !!..unless I go to Matlock soon.......

Derek.

Hello Sandie........I'n assuming that you know all about the earlier Shipleys..let me know if i am wrong...
Here is a summary of what i have on the BLACKBURN family..originally from Norfolk........

JAMES W BLACKBURN 1853 - 1923..married ELIZABETH LOWE of Whittington Chesterfield derbys..............among their childre was:

WILFRED ARTHUR BLACKBURN 1896 -- 1950...who married:
HARRIET MEAD 1896 -- 1976..amongst whose children was:

KATHLEEN ELIZABETH BLACKBURN 10.03.1925 -- 13.05.2008..who married:

JOHN HENRY SHIPLEY 20.01.1922 -- 29.03.1970....the illegitimate son of Gladys.........the rest you probably know.

Derek.

Hello Derek, hope you are well.Yes I know about the earlier Shipleys.The only thing is that I will never know who my grandfather is.Never mind, thanks very much for the info on the Blackburns.When I come back from holiday I will probably need some help again. Much obliged for all your help, Sandie.

Hello Derek,
Hope you are on the mend. Do you have any information on John Reaney, born 1725 in Eckington ? I believe he married an Ann Swift (b.1730) and was still producing offspring up to 1772, but I have been unable to find the marriage or any death / burial details.
Thanks in advance.

Hello Derek,

Thank you for checking for me re Ann Pakeman.

I've been to Lichfield Records Office this morning and now have copies of the relevant wills showing the children and grandchildren. Interestingly Francis P the elder listed his children and their children with the amounts bequeathed to them until he got to Ann - then it is just one line stating his "Granddaughter Ann - £20" .... no info on her father hence my query.

Thanks once again for all of your help.

No doubt there will be yet more queries :-D :-D :-D

Regards

Barbara

Thank you for your Pm Sylvia..I have replied.

Derek.

Hi Derek

I'm wondering if you have managed to find out anything for me re Mary Holmes's burial and also anything on James Hutchinson.
Many thanks
Here's the info I gave you

The death in 1860 of Mary Holmes aged 72 living in Stokes Yard, Chesterfield, you said you may have to go to the RO to look for her burial details and I wondered if you'd had a chance to do this?

Also I think you've got some Brampton records, can you look for James Hutchinson, he was born abt 1756, his wife Catherine died in 1841 in West Barr, she was aged 82 and a widow, think they lived in Brampton.

Many thanks
Kath

Hi Derek
Been quiet on your board for a while...........

Hope you are well.......

Take care
Susan :-D