Find Ancestors

Hi Derek,

I found your thread and wondered if you had time if you could do a lookup for me.

In the 1841 census I have the BRAMLEY children - William 1816 / Thomas 1822 / Maria 1826 and George 1829 and I would love to try and find out who their parents are as they are living with William 1786 / Pheobe 1791 / Pheobe 1823 and Sarah 1825 FRETWILL

In the 1851 census of the FRETWELL family there is William, Pheobe, Pricilla (Pheobe i guess) - daughter and Sarah - daughter.

George BRAMLEY - 1829 - unmarried - son-in-law
Ann BRAMLEY - 1831 - unmarried - daughter-in-law

William and his daughters were born Shipley
Pheobe / George & Ann were born Cotmanhay

I have a gut feeling that maybe Pheobe 1791 was their mum but just haven't been able to prove it as I can't find their births.

Please could you take a look for me when you have time as it's been bugging me for ages now....

Thanks :-)

Hi Derek
AS you say George Turner is a mystery as mentioned found him married to Hannah wilson on 1871 Cenus in Rotherham they married in oct 1864.
Once i get more info i can continur with him. as you say not many Turners around in Cromford so maybe Sarah was his mother & that marriage to george Taylor was them as gins says found them in rotherham in 1861 under the family name of Taylor ?

Arstee..Hello Ellen........I think you might like this one!!..it took some sorting out as you will see......but its the difficult ones I enjoy......
..it's the children i haven't yet worked out........

JOHN BRAMLEY baptised St Mary's Ilkeston 14.03.1777 son of Thomas and Hannah (nee Henshaw married llkeston 03.07.1771).........
.....married PHOEBE KNIGHTON at llkeston 28.03.1810..........then died at lkeston and was buried 14.03.1825 aged 48 !!!!!!

I have only THREE children of the marriage baptised at Ilkeston:-
Ruth 24.06.1811...William 31.07.1814..and Maria 09.02.1817.......ignore the ages on the 1841 census..as often happened they are nonsense....my dates are from original PR's.....

Which begs the question about whose children are the following..on the 1841 census:
Phoebe 1823
Sarah 1825
Thomas 1822.......who was actually born 1818 and probably of John and Phoebe..buried 07.01.1829 aged 11
George 1829........if correct was four years after his alleged father died.....

BUT...Phoebe Bramley re-married.....to William Fretwell 09.04.1832 at Duffield.and since he was born in 1786..I suggest he also was previously married....and brought some children with him

On the 1841 Census..although Fretwell is wrongly spelt..all the remaining children are shown as Fretwells.includng those we know to be Bramleys..

but on the 1851 George 1829 and Ann (who i haven't yet found) are shown as Bramleys...........George cannot be a Bramley if he was born 1829 becasue John Bramley was dead and buried 1825...

Looks like fun!!..I'll carry on looking!

Derek.

Hi Derek,

Thanks so much for taking the time to look at this for me...

I had seen the BRAMLEY/KNIGHTON and BRAMLEY/FRETWELL marriages and had thought this was a good possible turn of events but could find no links to say for sure but as you've come up with the same stuff I think we could be correct there so I'm liking that :-D

Not liking though the fact that you've just killed off my however many great grandads - Thomas..... :-0

I have Thomas in 1851 living with his wife Sarah and their daughter Angelina with another family who's name escapes me right now..... I know this is the correct family for me so now I'm in a tizz as to wether I've found him wrong in childhood ? :-S

Don't worry..I'll sort it.........just to show how stupid some of the 1841 Censuses were in terms of rounding dates up and down byas much as ten years......your answer vis a vis THOMAS BRAMLEY is that he actually fits in very well indeed with the other three children of JOHN and PHOEBE........Thomas Brambley baptised 17.02.1813 Ilkeston..son of John (Collier of Cotmanhay) and Phoebe..and I bet that when i find Ann she will also have been born earlier rather than later......We now have Ruth 1811/Thomas 1813/ William 1814 and Maria 1817..all with the same parents who married in 1810.............John (a collier of Cotmanahy)..with Ann yet to find..............and George will have been a Fretwell rather than a Bramley...........
.....fortunately..Parish records, being in chronological order ,don't lie......Census returns do!.

EDIT.........oops....Thomas Bramley 17.02.1813 son of John and Phoebe was buried 13.04.1813...........sorreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee...
Derek.

Derek,

thanks for all that info but you've opened a can of worms well and truely now :-S

So, the Thomas you've found died at 2 months... So, he can't be my Thomas.....

Tonght I've been trawling through a ton of info sent to me by a distant cousin an i noticed this time round a reference to my Thomas saying that he (cousin) had found Thomas's marriage 15 june 1846 to Sarah. It says father John Brambleby deceased collier.

The only other likely Thomas Bramley I can see in census (1851) was a few years younger with parents Thomas & Hannah so i guess I can rule him out as a maybe for having the wrong fathers name.

Could John & Pheobe of called a later son Thomas too I wonder ? I have that in other branches of my tree where the parents used the same name once or several times over if the child dies.

Also, thinking about it and just writing it there reminded me that when I found that BRAMLEY/FRETWELL marriage it was actually down as Pheobe BRAMBLEBY !!

Ellen

Derek,

I may of just solved Ann....

Took a look for George later and found him still using the name Bramley living with his wife - Hannah - that might be Ann even though it said they were un-married ??

Hi Derek
Have you had any more luck re George Turner 1842 at all for me.
Sharon

Good morning Sharon..frankly no..have plenty of stuff later,,but you already have that..I cannot get back beyond his mother with any certainty...

Derek.

Thanks Derek
So we know she was Sarah Turner. What year was she born in obviously we will not be able to get past his mother .
Is it normal that everything says George turner but she married and he is on the cenus for some years as George Taylor then or did the emu erator misheard his name
Thanks again for any help
Sharon

...unless we can find her marriage to a guy called Taylor???????....flying a kite somewhat..there is a sarah Turner marrying George Turner at Eckington 1799.....

Derek.

Hi Derek, I have been having a look there appears to have been a sarah turner who married a george Taylor in 1842. as i had not found him before his marriage in 1864 only the one whos parent was Thomas & Sarah Turner. so just trying to comfirm it before i put it onto my tree.

thanks for any help
sharon

Hello Derek, long time no see. :-D. You will now not want to see me methinks Can you see if you can find a marriage for me please.

Thomas Measham born 1853 Repton. I have found a tree that says he married Sarah ?? born 1850 in 1883. ;-). They then had several children Sarah,Martha,William,Edmund and Edith if the tree is correct.

Thank you

Hello Gooner..splutters wildly with indignation into his double Scotch!!......here we go again!!!! :-) :-)

WILLIAM MEASHAM of Repton married ELIZABETH (Betsy) WOOTTEN at Ticknall 18.08.1833............their third child was:-

THOMAS MEASHAM baptised Repton 19.04.1853..who became Head Gamekeeper on an estate in Lancashire............where, on 19.12.1883 he married a local girl SARAH EDMONDSON..and i've found four of the five children..all born at Hesketh with Becconsall Lancashire.
by 1911 Thomas is a widower, same job, same place with his two youngest children............

Derek :-D :-D

Oh you are a star Derek. Will probably have a few more for you soon. I have just started work on my Derbyshire lot again :-D

Another one for you Derek, I have Esther Measham born 1858 Repton, dad William and Mum Mary Atherley. I think she married in Derby in 1887 to Albert Holloway ? Can you see if you can check this please

Thank you

Hiya Derek

I have turned my attention to Llewellyn Davies/Davis born 1876 in Glossop (Reg District Hayfield). He appears with parents John and Margaret in Glossop in 1881. By 1891 he is in Bakewell as a groom with some family, I forget. A wonderful GR person (yes, there are two of you on here!) found him enlisting in the army in 1895 (A Yorkshire Regiment) and being discharged in 1907 after his agreed 12-year term, which included an involvement with the Relief of Kimberley.

He rose through Corporal to Sergeant.

But no sign of him in 1911. I probably have the same access as you to 1911 census records, but sometimes another eye finds something. I have no marriage for him, and no death, but a certificate pending on a possible death in 1916 no place given.

So where was he in 1911?

On his army papers he says he was a Weslyan.

I realise that I am not certain who his parents were. I say John and Margaret Davies, but the couple didn;t mary until 1890 when John says he was a widower, so Llewellyn (various spellings) could have been the son of John and his previous wife whoever she was. Llewellen was born in Derbyshire, so his mother, the first wife of John Davies, might have died in Derbyshire.

Don't know if you can help with this Derek. It is a bit convoluted.

Love

Margaret

Hello Margaret..long time absentee!!..then you come back with a stinker!!!

As you say Llewelyn Davies was born 1876 Glossop..along with Margaret 1878..children of John and Margaret Davies..that's the easy bit.
From there i have had to go way out of my comfort zone, into Wales and lancashire!!..more of that in a minute....

I have llewelyn Davies receiving a Chelsea pension up to about 1913....but he is impossible to pin down..becasue i have a Major LD.and another LD who was discharged in 1919.....a gunner.......obviously not the same people....but thats all the clue I can give you.he may well have been in Chelsea hospital in 1911.....

You may have noted on the 1901 and 1911 censuses that JOHN DAVIES1861 and MARGARET..have a series of little Fishes as step-children........after some argy bargying..I found them to be the children of RICHARD and MARGARET FISH..how did i do this??

Margaret Davies was born in Ribchester lancashire.....Margaret Fish was born in Ribchester.both in 1839..and so was margaret Duxbury (Dilworth near Ribchester.0.........

Margaret Duxbury of Ribchester 1839.married RICHARD FISH at Chorley in 1861..had their first child John thomas at ribchester in 1862..and the rest in Glossop..........where Richard Fish conveniently died JFM 1873....

whatever marriage took place between Margaret Fish and John Davies (of Gwent Wales)..must have taken place in Hayfield Glossop area.because their two children Llewellyn and Margaret were born there.......they may have had other later...........but if there was a marriage i can't find it.

Not much i'm afraid.........but at least you know i'm still at it!!

Derek.

Hi LA.............ESTHER MEASHAM 03.10,1858.Repton..second child of six to William Measham and Mary nee Atherley..........

.....married ALBERT HOLLOWAY b 1863 Burton on Trent........OND 1887..children all born Burton on trent.

Derek.

Thanks Derek, I can now enter that one as correct. Be back with some more soon no doubt :-D