Find Ancestors

Hello Stephen..I believe I have seen your enquiry on another site..and it seemd your concern was mainly about the parents of Samuel Barnes.......
..and if that was you, I can see the difficulty.

First..we have Samuel and Mary Ann Barnes and their children from 1871 through to and including 1911...Samuel....born CRICH...Derbyshire..but with the variations of dates that is always a problem with censuses..he was born anytime between 1833 and 1839.....

Second...I have loads of infor about Crich...and a problem arises in how you choose between one of the following two...

SAMUEL BARNES 29.08.1836 son of Samuel and Hannah nee Curzon, who married 25.12.1830...........or....
SAMUEL BARNES 06.01.1833..son of Abraham and Sarah.....(Verey?)

either one could be the Samuel in the later Censuses....

Thirdly..who is this Mary Ann Barnes from Codnor???

I have seen the marriage in Belper Registration district for Samuel barnes to mary Ann Wright OND 1864..........doesn't seem any problem to me...........BUT..I have come across an tree on which the treemaker swears blind..and I quote " possibly Mary Ann Clay..not Mary Ann Wright"..but the marriage he/she says took place Belper October 1864.....but as we KNOW..that marriage was to Mary Ann Wright.

I have all the records and information you need to solve this one....except the only piece of information that CAN solve it...........the marriage certificate of Samuel Barnes.to Mary Ann..which will give his age, parents, and mary Ann's maiden name......

I seem to remember you were concerned about Abraham Barnes and his relationship to Samuel...........well the crich records contain almost evrry possible combination of Samuels and Abrahams you could think of...including borther, father, uncle and grandfather.....

would welcome your thoughts.....

Derek..

Hi Derek, I have just got in from work to find your reply ref my query. I will go through your info tomorrow and get back to you. Once again many thanks.

Hi Derek
I have received a message from you saying you have found some more information regarding Samuel Barnes. Thank you

Yes Stephen..it was mainly the problem with the two very similar people of the same name:-

SAMUEL BARNES son of Samuel and Hannah 29.05.1836
SAMUEL BARNES son of Abraham and Sarah 06.01.1833

both at Crich, which has many Samuels and many Abrahams.....and no apparent way of distinguishing between the two. The later Censuses showing the family of Samuel and Mary Ann are varied in their depiction of the age of Samuel, that it was impossible to work back........
.until, that is, I looked at the Crich Burials, which solve the problem immediately:

Samuel Barnes buried 06.08.1846 aged 10.......other burials eliminated any other doubt..and left Samuel, son of Abraham and Sarah 1833 as the only contender............so that is cleared up!
The 1841 census is, at first glance, misleading.showing Abraham Barnes and sarah, with three others..easy to assume that these were his three children..until you look at samuel's age 8..and Abraham apparently born 1791 ( in fact 1787)....

So we have the wrong Abraham..Crich PR's give Abraham and Sarah Ann..and Abraham and Sarah......

The facts are these......Abraham 02.09.1787 son of Abraham..married SARAH ANN VEREY 21.10.1811 at Duffield.and had, among others, and is NOT directly related to ABRAHAM BARNES 04.08.1811..son of JOHN Barnes and HANNAH..who IS the father of your Samuel Barnes 1833..........still with me????..Abraham Barnes 1811 married Sarah........haven't yet found the marriage...in about 1831/2............had Jabez and Samuel..and by 1851 was a widower..........needs tidying up a bit..but that's the framework.....

Now.......I have been having a battle (elsewhere) about the wife of Samuel 1833..MARY ANN........there are two apparent contenders.....MARY ANN WRIGHT and MARY ANN CLAY......

I can tell you ,quite happily, that Samuel married Mary Ann Wright (Bmd's)..and not the other one..because the same Bmd's show Mary Ann Clay marrying one of the two John Considine.or William Anthony..not possibly to tell which.
My sparring partner is actually ordering the Certificate........will let you know.....

Let me know your thoughts on all this.

Derek.

Blimey Derek I got an headache just reading your thread!! You do this as a hobby???? Please give me a bit of time to take in the information you've sent and I'll get back to you. As many have already said you are a star Derek and thank you for taking the time to help me out.

Good Evening Derek, Barbara and Meercat ..............

Update on our wayward GREGSON Folk....Have good news and bad.........

Firstly the good.......We have the correct Mary Ann Gregson, she married William Rutland in 1884 at Biddulph. I received a copy of her birth cert today which confirms she was born 29 May 1866 at Overseal daughter of Mary Gregson formally TWIGG and James Gregson. In 1866 James was employed as a Husband Man. Birth registered at Hartshorne, Leicester/Derbyshire

Now the disappointing news..........I was hoping the marriage cert for JAMES GREGSON AND MARY ANN TWIGG would confirm James' birth date as 1814 which would indicate who his folks were........and then perhaps go some way to solving our CHARLES GREGSON mystery.......
Sadly cert shows both James and Mary being "of age"................I guess if he was born in 1814 & married in 1839 he would be "of age" if the cert can be believed.!!!!!!!!
James was a labourer and Mary a Laceworker both from Longford and married at Longford............It does confirm that the father of James was Charles Gregson...a labourer BUT which one???????? Marys father is John Twigg

Would appreciate your thoughts.........
Susan :-)

PS On a different subject, Am still awaiting 2 birth certs for potential JW or WJ Rutland

EDIT - 10 November 2012 - Have now received 2 birth certs for our potential missing Rutland. Seems James William Rutland was born at Trubshaw Edge, Thursfield, Wolstanton so hunch was right. Confirms born son of Mary Rutland formally Gregson and William Rutland. Still no nearer to finding out where William was living in 1881 prior to marrying Mary in 1884.
Now I have in my possession a birth cert for a William Rutland born Belper 1883 if anybody is looking for it..............Mother Hannah Day

Derek,

Would you possibly have coverage of a marraige recorded as taking place in the district of Worksop in 1877 which I am fairly sure would have taken place in Clowne Derbyshire. Marrraige between a Henry Froggatt and an Elizabeth Rodgers, the groom would have been the son of George Froggatt (deceased).

Many thanks Maurice.

Hello Maurice...........the marriage actually took place at the Church of St Lawrence WHITWELL........21.05.1877 between Henry Froggatt.. son of George.

Whitwell Derbyshire is a mile or so west of Worksop Nottinghamshire. from 1837 -1936 Whitwell, Clowne and Barlborough were all in the Worksop Registration District..when they were taken over by Chesterfield.

Henry was the son of George and Jane..and sadly Jane was a young widow in 1861........

Elizabeth Rodgers was from Bollington in Cheshire to which she and husband henry returned and brought up their family in Bollington.

Derek.

Many, many, thanks Derek

Thats extremely kind of you and puts that long standing question to bed on just who Henry Froggatt married.

Again, many thanks
Maurice

If you're still in business, Derek, I'd like some info on a relative of my Dad's who lived at Codnor.

Terry

Good morning Terry......I am very much still in business..but there are a lot of relatives of a lot of Dad's over many years in Codnor!!!

Hello Derek, Could you check parish records for a Ronald Ford Harrison born 1902/1903 in Newton Solney, Derbyshire. I am afraid I don't know who his parents are, father could possibly be called Charles. thank you.

Hello Marian........the Newton Solney records would be of little use, because the family were from Yorkshire..but Ronald Ford Harrison Was born at Newton Solney in 1902..birth registered AMJ 1902 at Burton on Trent.

His parents were Charles Richardson Harrison and Laura (nee Ford)..both from Yorkshire..so what they were doing at Newton Solney on the 1901 census can only be related to work.........he was a Bank Manager in 1901.
EDIT..they were married n Derbyshire 1900.

Curious happenings were about in 1911 !!!.....Charles' name is crossed out and Ronald is shown with three female visitors....none of hom appear to be his mother...........I'll see what i can find out.

Charles Richardson Harrison died in 1914.......

I suspect some shenanigans, becasue the newton Solney records have a combination of Richardson, harrisons and Fords.....marrying each other......though none of your lot seem to be involved.

However, when a child is given both parents names, it often means the child was born before they were married.......like being born Ford and becoming Harrison...

I do have history of both parents in Yorkshire.

Derek.

Thank you Derek. :-)

Hi Derek,

Someone has contacted me asking if I know anything about a Henry Marsh born c1827, he appears in 1871 census from Scarcliffe married to Charlotte Marsh (nee Charlesworth). I don't know anything this couple, they don't figure in my tree. So I wondered do have any additional information?

Cheers
Mark

Hello again Mark.........I'm not surprised that you're having difficulty. I've seen the 1861 Census for HENRY MARSH at Epperstone Notts....he married CHARLOTTE CHARLESWORTH at Mansfield Notts 1st Qtr 1851.....and had three children in the Mansfield/Mansfield Woodhouse.Epperstone area....all very close to Shirebrook Scarcliffe and cuckney etc in derbyshire...........and all in the Bolsover District.....

BUT Charlotte was not born Charlesworth!!..she was born 1823 Bolsover/Shirebrook the daughter of John and Charlotte MEEKIN...

Charlotte MEEKIN married John Charlesworth 06.01.1837 at Bolsover...and had two children......and John Charlesworth died in 1847.....and his widow married Henry marsh in 1851..............

As for Henry Marsh 1827 Scarcliffe.he may have been born there but he was not baptised there....(I have the Scarcliffe PR's)...the best bet i have is that he was baptised 11.02.1827 St Werbergh Derby son of John and Mary...........I offer this with some caution..but based on the fact that John and Mary were married at Scarcliffe.

I have done an enormous amount of work on the Marsh family in the past, but this is new t me.

Derek.

Good Evening Derek........Sorry, Its me again back to hassle you....

Hows things with you?
Hope all is well.

Am looking for some information about the Bucknall family of Beeston, Nottingham if possible........Do your records cover this area ?

Susan

Hi Susan........will try for you..dates please!!!
Derek

Thanks Derek......

I need to confirm the parents and siblings of GEORGE BUCKNALL born about 1839 in Beeston.

I believe his parents to be John Bucknall and Frances (possibly Lowe) I have no idea where they were married..

GEORGE (1839) was married to GEORGIANA JACKSON........Her parents (confirmed by copy cert) were George Jackson and Hannah Townshend and she was born 1840 at Hope Street Derby.........

I have no idea when GEORGE & GEORGIANA were married BUT from 1871 they were living in Horninglow / Burton where their daughter MARY ANN BUCKNALL was born in 1877....Mary Ann went on to marry Robert Sowter in 1902 at Christ Church Burton......

Thank you
Susan

Hi Susan..here we go, as requested....do i ever fail you??? lol....

John Bucknall married Frances(Fanny) Lowe at Beeston 17.11.1824...

Looking at the 1841 Census they have children as follows:-

Emma 1826
Francis 1826
John 1831
Eliza 1836
GEORGE 1839.....who all appear on the 1851 except Emma.....who may have been away as a servant or something....
All years subject to accuracy or otherwise of the 1841 Census!
The curious thing is that none of them were baptised........by 1841....

then suddenly.ALL of them were baptised on the same day..at Beeston 01.05.1842.....plus Hannah. on the same date.....
Nothing particularly outstanding about block baptism in those days...but curiously HANNAH is not on the 1851 census........and I suspect that it was the birth of Hannah..and probably her impending infant death, that prompted the parents to baptise all the other children.
I have not yet checked for a death of Hannah..but the parents would certainly want to have had her baptised at the latest on her death bed........the vicar would have baptised all the others at the same time.

GEORGE BUCKALL married GEORGIANA JACKSON 1858..marriage registered Derby District last Quarter 1858..........

Loads of Bucknalls at Beeston!..if you want any more, let me know.

Derek.