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I wonder if Henry Beatson was the brother of Mary Emma's mother. I did find this marriage which is a possible marriage for Mary Emma's parents


Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Jun 1850 (>99%)
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>>BEATSON Emma Sheffield 22 513
Hatfield William Sheffield 22 513
Ibbotson Ann Sheffield 22 513
Jones Ann Sheffield 22 513
Rodgers Alfred Sheffield 22 513
Stork Ann Sheffield 22 513
Warburton Maria Huddersfield 22 513
WINGFIELD James Sheffield 22 513
>>>WITCOMB Edward Cornelius Sheffield 22 513


The Beatson family in 1841

ame: Emma Beatson
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1831
Gender: Female
Where born: Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Sheffield
Hundred: Strafforth and Tickhill (North Division)
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation: View image

Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: Brightside
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Sarah Beatson 50
Mary Beatson 20
George Beatson 20
Ann Beatson 20
Henry Beatson 15
Elizabeth Beatson 13
Emma Beatson 10

On the 1871 census Mary Emma Whitcombe born 1857 Sheffield was the niece of Henry Beatson born and Anna Beatson born 1824 nee Mackilwain married 1859.they lived at 42 Pye Bank Brightside Bielow. Mary Emma Whitcombe was married to Richard Hartley but can any one help to find out were the Beatsons fit in thanks Janette.

Hi every one today i got back Mary Ellens birth certificate her father was Richard Hartley a pot hawker,her mother was Mary Emma Hartley formerly Whitcombe. they lived at 8 Broad Lane Sheffield. thanks Janette

Good Luck Janette

If the 1887 marriage for Richard and Mary Emma is correct, then I think this is their child Richard, born pre their marriage in 1879 and living with the couple in 1881. He has both Richard's first and second name if the marriage is correct

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Births Jun 1879 (>99%)
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Whitcombe Richard Barker Sheffield 9c 439

There was also another child born between the 1881 and 1891 that could have been theirs


Births Jun 1884 (>99%)
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WHITCOMBE William Henry Sheffield 9c 424

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Deaths Mar 1885 (>99%)
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WHITCOMBE William Henry 0 Sheffield 9c 280

I might be confusing things but is this Mary Ann's mom and dads marriage?

Marriages Sep 1853 (>99%)
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DUKE William Sheffield 9c 381
Jessop Ellen Sheffield 9c 381

Just going on the census Christine posted?

Ginny
x

That certainly must be the marriage for the couple I posted in 1881 then, ruling out Richard's father as Robert.

We will have to wait now for the birth cert of Mary Ellen.

Christine

Hi the ages of Richard was 20 and Mary Ann Duke was also 20 and married 1876 thanks Janette.

Hi Janette,

Let us know who the mother is on the birth cert.

Did you see my posting of the 1881 census for the Richard Hartley with mother in law Duke in the household as that seems to rule out the possibility of your Richard's father being Robert.

What were the ages of Richard and Mary Ann Duke on the cert?

Christine

Janette

Cant wait for the certificate to come! Keep us posted.

Ginny
x

Hi everyone,thankyou to you all for your help on Richard Hartley family,i have just sent off for the birth certificate of Richards daughter Mary Ellen Hartley.so at least it will give us her mothers name so then we can find Richards wife,leading us to the father of Richard,will it be Robert or James or someone else we will have to wait and see. thanks again Janette.

Hi K thanks i think the Hartleys are right on the 1911 census you posted.As Mary Ellen Hartley was aged 12 meaning she was born in 1899 and on herwedding certificate she was 22 when she married in 1921 born 1899. so on those censes her mother was Mary Emma Hartley.(whitcombe) is that right thanks Janette.

Possible Mary Emma Whitcombe in 1861


Name: Mary Emma Whitcombe
Age: 5
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1856
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: Edward
Mother's Name: Emma
Gender: Female
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Hook
Ecclesiastical parish: Goole
Town: Goole
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage: View image

Registration district: Goole
Sub-registration district: Goole
ED, institution, or vessel: 9
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 31
Household Members: Name Age
Edward Whitcombe 30
Emma Whitcombe 30
Mary Emma Whitcombe 5

And 1871

Name: Mary E Whitcombe
Age: 14
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1857
Relation: Niece
Gender: Female
Where born: Sheffield, Yorkshire, England
Civil parish: Brightside Bierlow
Ecclesiastical parish: Wicker Trinity
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England
Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: Brightside
ED, institution, or vessel: 13
Household schedule number: 32
Household Members: Name Age
Henry Beatson 45
Anna Beatson 47
Mary E Whitcombe 14

It looks as though the marriage cert is sadly incorrect.

There is another Richard Hartley age 53 b Ecclesfield a machine tile cutter in the 1911 census with wife Mary Ann. They had been married 34 years which ties in and only had 3 children Amelia Ellen 26 Sam 23 and Ethel 20. So with no Mary Ellen this is not your family.


I presume this is your family in 1911 when Richard had died which confirms Mary's middlle name as Emma

1911

WARRINGHAM, TIMOTHY ANDREW HEAD MARRIED M 30 LABOURER FOR ROD ROLLER SHEFFIELD YORK'S
WARRINGHAM, LILY WIFE MARRIED 2 F 22 SHEFFIELD YORKS
WARRINGHAM, LILY DAUGHTER F 2 SHEFFIELD YORKS
HARTLEY, MARY EMMA MOTHER IN LAW WIDOW F 52 WASHER WOMEN SHEFFIELD YORKS
HARTLEY, MARY ELLEN SISTER IN LAW F 12 SHEFFIELD


On this basis I have found another mariage that could have been a second marriage for Richard to Mary Emma. However as the couple were living together pre this in 1881 so I wonder if this is correct

Surname First name(s) District Vol Page

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Marriages Sep 1887 (>99%)
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CHEETHAM Caroline Sheffield 9c 476
CLEGG Thomas Sheffield 9c 476
>>>HARTLEY Richard Barker Sheffield 9c 476
>>>WHITCOMBE Mary Emma Sheffield 9c 476


I will look for Mary Emma pre marriage but maybe the best way forward would be to check their children's births listed below. I think the two later births of Mary Ellen and Lilly would be their children and Richard could be the first child of Richard's first marriage

Births Mar 1871 (>99%)
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Hartley Richard Sheffield 9c 340



Births Sep 1888
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HARTLEY Lily Sheffield 9c 381



Births Jun 1899 (>99%)
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Hartley Mary Ellen Sheffield 9c 497

Hi Janette,

You haven't said what their ages are on the marriage cert but I think it could be for this Richard Hartley and Mary ann as there is Ellen Duke with them as mother in law.
There isn't an occupation given but in later years he is a file cutter.


1881 England Census
about Richard Hartley
Name: Richard Hartley
Age: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1858
Relation: Head
Spouse's Name: Mary Ann
Gender: Male
Where born: Ecclesfield, Yorkshire, England

Civil parish: Sheffield
County/Island: Yorkshire
Country: England

Street Address: 55(B) Garden St
Condition as to marriage: Married
Education:

Registration district: Sheffield
Sub-registration district: North Sheffield
ED, institution, or vessel: 23
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Richard Hartley 23
Mary Ann Hartley 24
Sevilla Hartley 6
Ellen Duke 57 mother in law

It's also possible you have the wrong birth cert. I would order Mary Ellen's birth cert to get her mother's name as there seem to be different wives for the ones we have found on the census.

It will hopefully make it easier to find a marriage, because the occupation of Richard from her marriage cert don't match up with the census either.

Christine

Richard Hartleys wedding certificate is now here.he married in Sheffield in 1876 to Mary Ann Duke he was a bachelor at the time and a file cutter,his father was also a file cutter in the name of Robert Hartley. On Richards birth certificate his father was James and mother Felisha Boden. ive also got Richards daughters wedding certificate Mary Ellen Hartley formeley Hartley married to Albert Edward Hartley her father was down as Richard and occupation cloth dyer. have i got the wrong birth certificate or wrong wedding certificate please help thanks Janette.

Whilst Richard b 1842 was the only Richard Hartley at about the right time in Salford(although slightly young), there were other Richard Hartley's born about the right time in Manchester which adjoins and as I said he is not with his James and Felica in any census.

Richard marriage cert would prove the link to James and Felicia or not.

Hi Christineir no i only Have The wedding certificate of Mary Ellen Hartley Janette

Deaths Dec 1873 (>99%)
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Hartley James 63 Bury 8c 336




This could well be James death as the age and last census district fits?

x

Do you have Mary Ellen's birth cert?

Christine

I'd take a bet that our 'Felisha' was not called that at all and adopted the name sometime after the 1841 census.

I cant find a marriage for her (OK it could mean she married before 1837) but there is no death for her either..even if she lived to 115.

this would explain why she and James and son Richard cant be found on the 1841 census

Maybe we need to take another direction?

x