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LOL, like the idea, but think it's pushing it a bit, she was 29 when she got married!!, maybe she just didn't like her dad?

OK think about this.....

Maybe Kathleen only remembered her Father as mixing big bowls of goo....Plaster? dough?

She wouldnt have been allowed in the Bakery as a child?.....

yes that's her parents, Brangwin shown as mother maiden name on kathleen birth cert

It's move on time Barry...

Marriages Dec 1882

Brangwin Mary Hartley Wintney 2c 357
IRVING John William Hartley W. 2c 357

My kids already have me down as a boring old f*** thats addicted to this hobby! lol

Gerri

i happy with most thing's it's just the plastere bit that really bugs me. and keeps nagging at the back of my head 'it's the wrong one'!!!

I wonder what my daughter will put down as my occupation, 'wind up merchant' or 'pain in the a***'', best be nice to her!!.

thank for your help

No birth cert just as Kathleen Mackay formerly Irving.

on her death cert, is say Kathleen, otherwise Catherine MacKay.

done as search for a Catherine irving as well, but no match ups

Hey! it happened! still does today.

Yes I do think you have the correct BDMs Just a shame she diddnt show her middle name on that Marriage!
Nothing else comes even close...

Did she show her middle name (Grace) on your Mothers birth cert? (PLEASE say no!!!)

I wonder if it was anything to do with marrying beneath her!! and against her families wishes.

but do you think that this is the correct Kathleen?

Census night in 1891 was 5 April .

She is said to be 6 months old on the 1891....

This makes her birth correct as Sept 1890.

I think this is something you will have to put down as a mystery that will never be solved and Kathleen Guessed her Fathers occupation at the time of Marriage!

Dont forget that way back then...people diddnt even know thier Fathers Christian name let alone his occupation!


...OR?.....

Maybe they eloped? Ran away to get Married....

Births Dec 1920

MACKAY Sheila Irving Halifax 9a 726

yes that's my mother,

John Williams died 11/09/1915, informant was a Gertrude Maud Irving, daughter. died in Bramley Southampton

and yes Donald mackay was my Grandfather 100%

There was another marriage in 1915:

Marriages Dec 1915

Collins Alfred Irving Salisbury 5a 505
***Irvining Kathleen G Collins Salisbury 5a 505

Image actually says Irving !!

Dea x

Is this birth yours? Your Mother?

Births Dec 1920

MACKAY Sheila Irving Halifax 9a 726

marriage in Halifax, is correct one,100%. that's not her in Islington.

Do you know for a fact that Donald MacKay was your grandfather???? (Apart from what it says on the marriage cert which you have) ??

Dea x

Who was the informant on the 1915 death of John W.?

...Maybe Kathleen was unsure of her Fathers occupation when she Married? (clutching at straws here...) Sorry...

Also, Why diddnt she use her full name on the Marriage cert? Kathleen G or Grace?

My head hurts lol

found this Kathkeen G Irving

Marriages Sep 1927 (>99%)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Greene Michael Williams Islington 1b 692
Grime Arthur T Irving Islington 1b 692
Irving Kathleen G Grime Islington 1b 692
Williams Winifrede H Greene Islington 1b 692


The district Islington spans the boundaries of the counties of Greater London, London and Middlesex

so maybe Kathleen Grace birth is the wrong one

FOR REFERENCE showing Ethel as the Sister...

1891 England Census
about Kathleen G Irving
Name: Kathleen G Irving
Age: 6/12
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1890
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John W ...Baker & confectioner.
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Hartley Wintney, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: Hartley Wintney
Ecclesiastical parish: Hartley Wintney
Town: Hartley Wintney
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Hartley Wintney
Sub registration district: Hartley Wintney
ED, institution, or vessel: 2
Neighbors: View others on page
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur W Irving 3
Ethel B Irving 5
Evelyn M Irving 6
Florence M Irving 7
Harry C Irving 3
John W Irving 40 born: Wantage, Berkshire
Kathleen G Irving 6/12
Mary Irving 41 born: White Waltham, Berkshire
====

1901 England Census
about Kathleen G Irving
Name: Kathleen G Irving
Age: 10
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1891
Relation: Daughter
Father's Name: John W ....Foreman Baker
Mother's Name: Mary
Gender: Female
Where born: Hartley Wintney, Hampshire, England

Civil Parish: Wootton
Ecclesiastical parish: St Lawrence
Town: Wootton
County/Island: Hampshire
Country: England

Street address:

Occupation:

Condition as to marriage:

Education:

Employment status: View Image

Registration district: Basingstoke
Sub registration district: Basingstoke
ED, institution, or vessel: 16
Neighbors: View others on page
Household schedule number: 55
Household Members: Name Age
Arthur W Irving 12
Evelyn M Irving 15
Gertrude M Irving 9
Harry C Irving 13
John W Irving 44
Kathleen G Irving 10
Mary Irving 48 Maidenhead Berkshire

100 % for corect marriage. but can't any other births that match up.
the 1901 census has the Irvings living in Wootton, basingstoke.

I have some information (but nothing firm) that they may have meet up when Donald was in hospital in 1917, after coming back from the war. but I don't know if nurse's records can be traced? or if she was a VAD, or service's medical.

Yes, these
yes this is person i beleive to be my grandmother

Irving Kathleen Grace Hartley W. 2c 169

and
Irving Kathleen Mackay Halifax 9a 947
Mackay Donald Irving Halifax 9a 947
are my grandmother and grandfather

Grandmother died on 27/03/1946, aged shown as 61 but this does not match up with any births or marriage cert, so i assume that it's a mistake.

grooms father occupation is correct Thatcher.